displaying posts 1 to 25 of 139

Pages (6): [1] 2 3 .. last

Author Subject: Uprated 3rd & 4th Gears for Supercharged/High Torque/Track C
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #1
Running around 275lbft of torque in my race car with the Rotrex C38/91 I've had my fair share of gearbox failures. I've had 4 or 5 fail and that includes Cryo'd boxes too; the initial failure has always been 3rd gear, closely followed by the others as I continue to race with a ever-decreasing ratios.
The standard gears are very hard but have a very low ductile strength meaning that they break due to shock-loading as apposed to wear.
I've been speaking to a very well known and respected gear/gearbox manufacturer and they have investigated the best options available and the cost thereof.

We propose to make dog-engagement 3rd and 4th gears to fit the standard gearbox to achieve:
1. A very high strength gearbox
2. As low cost as possible
3. Retro-fit to standard gearbox
4. Able to salvage a gearbox that only has a broken 3rd and/or 4th gears
5. Standard ratios (which have proved to be perfect for my car)
6. Retains synchro for 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th
7. Keeps transmission noise to a minimum
8. Perfect for road, track, rally and race or a combination of uses
9. A full build service can be organised, price to be advised and donor gearbox required
10. A drive-in, drive out service can be organised, price to be advised and this would not be same day service

Parts to be Manufactured:
Dog Ring
3rd Gear
4th Gear
3rd/4th Layshaft
To be made from extremely durable S156
Heat Treated, Hard-Turned and Internally Ground for absolute precision

Cost:
£895
A cheaper option using EN36 will also be available at a cost of £750, but I will certainly be choosing S156 myself.

Timescale:
I need definite orders and a deposit of £150 by the end of September
Remainder of payment must be paid by the end of November
The gears should be available by the end of November although I'll say definitely before Christmas.

Group Buy:
As a one-off this kit would cost around £1,500 so to make it possible I have to place an order for 10 kits. Please add your name to this list only if you are a definite and are committed to pay the deposit and full payment on time. Please indicate S156 £895 or EN36 £750 on the list below:

1. ash S156 £895
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 19:36
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #2
Didn't mean to repeat the post.
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 19:38
aaron6

Seasoned Pro

Location: On the sofa in maidstone

Registered: 16 May 2006

Posts: 5,840

Status: Offline

Post #3
Is the En36 going to recieve any sort of case hardening treatment as although its a good mild steel, its still soft. However, if your looking for the cheaper option to not have h/t on the shaft, maybe plump for En24T instead.

Unless ive read that wrong. Seems a good price though. Smile

________________________________________

See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 20:03
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #4
The EN36 will be heat treated etc too. I am told that EN36 is a much better steel for gears than EN24 but I can't argue the point as I'm not the expert they are.
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 20:08
aaron6

Seasoned Pro

Location: On the sofa in maidstone

Registered: 16 May 2006

Posts: 5,840

Status: Offline

Post #5
EN36 is very good if case hardened. It withstands shock pretty well and whilst being nice and hard too.
I only suggested 24T if no HT was going to happen as 24T is already quite hard and tough. They would have steered you away from the basic EN24 as thats through hardening and wouldnt withstand the battering too well.

Plus having read that back, I was only reffering to the shafts not the gears. Obviously the gears need to be hardened.

Anyway, sounds a great idea and best of luck with the group buy. Smile

________________________________________

See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 20:33
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

Status: Offline

Post #6
Clutchless shifting between 3rd and 4th then?

________________________________________

www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk

Facebook
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 20:47
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #7
Absolutely... as long as you don't try it with any other gears!
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 23:49
superchargedblack1997gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: guildford

Registered: 15 Aug 2009

Posts: 2,376

Status: Offline

Post #8
ash wrote:
Running around 275lbft of torque in my race car with the Rotrex C38/91 I've had my fair share of gearbox failures. I've had 4 or 5 fail and that includes Cryo'd boxes too; the initial failure has always been 3rd gear, closely followed by the others as I continue to race with a ever-decreasing ratios.
The standard gears are very hard but have a very low ductile strength meaning that they break due to shock-loading as apposed to wear.
I've been speaking to a very well known and respected gear/gearbox manufacturer and they have investigated the best options available and the cost thereof.

We propose to make dog-engagement 3rd and 4th gears to fit the standard gearbox to achieve:
1. A very high strength gearbox
2. As low cost as possible
3. Retro-fit to standard gearbox
4. Able to salvage a gearbox that only has a broken 3rd and/or 4th gears
5. Standard ratios (which have proved to be perfect for my car)
6. Retains synchro for 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th
7. Keeps transmission noise to a minimum
8. Perfect for road, track, rally and race or a combination of uses
9. A full build service can be organised, price to be advised and donor gearbox required
10. A drive-in, drive out service can be organised, price to be advised and this would not be same day service

Parts to be Manufactured:
Dog Ring
3rd Gear
4th Gear
3rd/4th Layshaft
To be made from extremely durable S156
Heat Treated, Hard-Turned and Internally Ground for absolute precision

Cost:
£895
A cheaper option using EN36 will also be available at a cost of £750, but I will certainly be choosing S156 myself.

Timescale:
I need definite orders and a deposit of £150 by the end of September
Remainder of payment must be paid by the end of November
The gears should be available by the end of November although I'll say definitely before Christmas.

Group Buy:
As a one-off this kit would cost around £1,500 so to make it possible I have to place an order for 10 kits. Please add your name to this list only if you are a definite and are committed to pay the deposit and full payment on time. Please indicate S156 £895 or EN36 £750 on the list below:

1. ash S156 £895
2. Ross S156 £895
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

________________________________________

Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 17th Sep 2013 at 12:32
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #9
No more interest for this kit? I'm really surprised. If you are interested please register your interest in the next week or you will miss out.
Need a minimum of 6 orders for this to go ahead at all:
1. ash S156 £895
2. Ross S156 £895
3.
4.
5.
6.
Posted 21st Sep 2013 at 11:44
superchargedblack1997gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: guildford

Registered: 15 Aug 2009

Posts: 2,376

Status: Offline

Post #10
bump!

________________________________________

Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 23rd Sep 2013 at 12:47
superchargedblack1997gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: guildford

Registered: 15 Aug 2009

Posts: 2,376

Status: Offline

Post #11
bump!

________________________________________

Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 26th Sep 2013 at 10:26
dcc

Senior User

Location: Wales

Registered: 24 Feb 2009

Posts: 502

Status: Offline

Post #12
have you not thought of using an off the shelf CR 5 speed gearset?

or converting to an ML box, which is rated for far higher torque.

________________________________________

205 GTI
Xsara HDI
Posted 26th Sep 2013 at 11:15
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #13
I'm not aware of any kit available that quotes a high enough torque capability of a charged 306. I also don't want to change the ratios or lose 6th gear!
Posted 1st Oct 2013 at 12:11
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #14
Last call for any other interest....
Posted 2nd Oct 2013 at 21:24
rallyestyle

Seasoned Pro

Location: London

Registered: 23 Jul 2003

Posts: 14,990

Status: Offline

Post #15
Im a little surprised more of the HB guys are not interested either. If i was heading down that route then i would certainly be considering these just for the piece of mind and reliability Yes

You never know, one day i may go crazy and get some high boost action going on Ninja

________________________________________

Just Drive It
Posted 3rd Oct 2013 at 11:28
superchargedblack1997gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: guildford

Registered: 15 Aug 2009

Posts: 2,376

Status: Offline

Post #16
I'm buying 2 that's how good an idea i think this is! after all Ash has tested the gearboxes to the edge of reliability. it's not too bad a price either ppg gearkits for a 5 speed box you're looking at close to 3.5 k.
bargain bump!

________________________________________

Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 3rd Oct 2013 at 11:36
russbez

Seasoned Pro

Location: Inverness-Shire

Registered: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 7,459

Status: Offline

Post #17
house build = i am broke

simple answer Yes

________________________________________

TEAM HIGH BOOST SUPERCHARGED RALLYE

My Rallye project thread
Posted 3rd Oct 2013 at 11:37
cjm_harris

Seasoned Pro

Location: Parts for Sale section

Registered: 04 Dec 2007

Posts: 7,442

Status: Offline

Post #18
russbez wrote:
house build = i am broke

simple answer Yes


House anything = broke IMO Yes

________________________________________

Chris
1999 China Gti6 Supercharged Devil [Fun car] >>Project Thread<<
2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout]
Posted 3rd Oct 2013 at 12:07
clen666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Co. Durham

Registered: 12 Feb 2009

Posts: 2,401

Status: Offline

Post #19
Wish I could afford this, if only it was a couple of months later as I've hopefully got a new job lined up

________________________________________

Team 'unintentional rat look'
Posted 3rd Oct 2013 at 14:54
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #20
This is now going ahead with only 4 kits being made although if you are quick and able to pay £250 deposit within 7 days and the balance by the end if November please say so quickly.
Posted 4th Oct 2013 at 21:02
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

Status: Offline

Post #21
To be honest Ash, most of the guys aren't on here any more. I would be doing this if the high boost I had been offered had come to fruition.

________________________________________

Nothing to see here
Posted 4th Oct 2013 at 22:23
pugheaven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Fareham

Registered: 17 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,602

Status: Offline

Post #22
I'm interested, I'm not clued up on gearbox issues however I'm wondering if strengthening the gears would it not pass the stress to the shaft?
Posted 6th Oct 2013 at 14:20
ash

Six Addict

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Mar 2003

Posts: 7,520

Status: Offline

Post #23
Let me know if you would like to join the order because I'm planning to place the order tomorrow.
There's no way of knowing what the next weakest link is, although there is no indication that the shaft can fail and the boxes are quite rigid; a twisting gearbox would promote failures.
Posted 7th Oct 2013 at 22:00
pugheaven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Fareham

Registered: 17 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,602

Status: Offline

Post #24
Go on then I'll have the s156 kit, send me your bank details or PayPal and I'll send the money across! Hopefully my current box won't fail but as this is a one off it would be silly to pass on the chance
Posted 7th Oct 2013 at 22:19
superchargedblack1997gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: guildford

Registered: 15 Aug 2009

Posts: 2,376

Status: Offline

Post #25
good man as you say to rare a chance to pass on it.

________________________________________

Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 7th Oct 2013 at 22:21

Pages (6): [1] 2 3 .. last

All times are GMT. The time is now 07:24

The Peugeot GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club - ©2024 all rights reserved.

Please Note: The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club or any individuals involved.
No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy.