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Author Subject: Jeffers "Budget" Track engine build!
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

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Post #26
Just a small update, having eventually sourced the cam follower I was missing I eventually have got round to fitting and pinning up the cams.
Cam followers fitted, be sure to lube them up well!

I then fitted the exhaust cam first, now there tends to be a bit of confusion as to how is best to do this, I was told reliably when I rebuilt the head that's on the car at the minute to fit the exhaust cam first as near to the pin as you can then fit the inlet cam the same....
Then rotate the exhaust cam til the pin lines up and pin it, this should only be maybe an eighth of a turn, I forgot to photograph this as I was concentrating. Then the same with the inlet, you can at this point see if the valves are going to be open or closed and if they're likely to clash (they shouldn't clash this way but it's nice to check!!)

Before pinning up I fitted the new camshaft oil seals and the back of the belt cover. Then fitted the pulleys and pinned up the cams as previously mentioned and I ended up here...

This is how the engine now sits. In the next day or two I'll be fitting the belt, timing up the cams then fitting as many ancillaries as I can. Things should progress quickly now as I've been talked into fitting the lump and if nothing goes wrong (fingers crossed) running it in ready for my trackday at Oulton in November!
The only issue I have with all that is the running in process, there are generally two trains of thought with that which are as follows.... Run the cams in to the followers as in the instructions then run the engine in gently up to 1000 miles with regular oil changes..... Or the more modern and albeit contraversial (sp) way being run the cams in and if no problems run the engine hard to ensure good bedding of the rings, plus this way prevents glazing of the bores. I'm a bit torn to be honest, in my job we tend to get the engines on full load as soon as possible to bed the rings in which to me is quite important.... Opinions welcome! Obviously either way the oil changes will be regular to clear any crap out of the engine for obvious reasons!

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Posted 10th Sep 2013 at 22:55
JWP EFi

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Post #27
i was always taught to run the engine at low load/rpm for first 200 or so miles, change oil and filter then load the engine up but not for long periods, the more miles you cover the more you can load/rev the engine for it to 'break in'. There seems to be different opinions but i personally like to follow the old school method. I have seen fresh recon engines that have been driven at light load for say 1000 miles but ended up burning oil because as you pointed out the bores were glazed
Posted 16th Sep 2013 at 22:04
allanallen

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Post #28
I've run several engines in hard and fast now with no issues. s**tty mineral oil or running in oil. Run the cams in as per there instructions then the most important bit is to bed the rings in properly. Load the rings up under acceleration then let it coast back down, not silly revs 4.5k ish. I do this for 20 miles or so then drop the oil and replace for decent semi, then off you go! If the engines gonna die it'll of most probably done it before the rings have bedded in.

Everyone's different, some people like to fanny about over thousands of miles! It's only the rings that need bedding in the bearings certainly don't!!

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Posted 17th Sep 2013 at 07:09
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

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Post #29
allanallen wrote:
I've run several engines in hard and fast now with no issues. s**tty mineral oil or running in oil. Run the cams in as per there instructions then the most important bit is to bed the rings in properly. Load the rings up under acceleration then let it coast back down, not silly revs 4.5k ish. I do this for 20 miles or so then drop the oil and replace for decent semi, then off you go! If the engines gonna die it'll of most probably done it before the rings have bedded in.

Everyone's different, some people like to fanny about over thousands of miles! It's only the rings that need bedding in the bearings certainly don't!!

This is the route i'm likely to take Allen really. I've thought and thought about it and having spoken to a few good friends in the trade this seems to be the general consensus of opinion, so this is how i'm going to be running it in! Thumbs up

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Posted 17th Sep 2013 at 09:12
eddy_gti6

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Post #30
How is your engine build coming on? All finished ready to go in yet?

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 06:17
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

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Post #31
eddy_gti6 wrote:
How is your engine build coming on? All finished ready to go in yet?

It is finished, i need to do an update really. Basically I've timed the cams up and the engine is in one piece awaiting fitting, i was going to fit and run in for Oulton park until i realised the next completely free weekend i have for this is the first weekend in December so i figured i'd rather fit it without rushing so i'm waiting til then. This is not a bad thing as my Throttle body conversion should be finished for then so will enable them to be fitted then too and the whole package be done in one go. Pictures to follow, first up Oulton park!!! Hyper

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 07:47
demondriverdan

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Post #32
Talking of engine bedding in, how would you go it on a track only car? I'm planning some engine work in the distant future for mine but since it's not road legal it's difficult to have a long bed in period as track time is expensive.

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 08:39
eddy_gti6

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Post #33
Just book yourself a track day and run it in on track. Do about 100mile then change the oil and filter. Go at it, not too hard but no point going slow. If its going to break it will break in the 1st 100mile!

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 10:08
gnrlee Forum Admin

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Post #34
Looking good and I'm looking forward!

the mrs reflects my views of at least doing 1 track day before I decided what to do with the 6 from here!
Thumbs up!

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 14:37
honestly3k

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Post #35
Interesting thread this, that's one shiney head + valves Smile

Will be pretty exciting when you turn the key for the first time.

Will keep an eye on your progress

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Posted 7th Nov 2013 at 14:53
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #36
honestly3k wrote:
Interesting thread this, that's one shiney head + valves Smile

Will be pretty exciting when you turn the key for the first time.

Will keep an eye on your progress

Exciting, yes! , scary.. Very! I rebuild engines worth a lot more all day every day! The issue is its a lot of 'MY' money so if it fails in any way its my problem which makes me nervous lol!!

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 03:01
eddy_gti6

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Post #37
Id its done right and am sure it is you shouldnt have any problems mate. Good luck Thumbs up look forward to seeing this hopefully next year

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Posted 10th Nov 2013 at 08:28
markylee

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Post #38
eddy_gti6 wrote:
Id its done right and am sure it is you shouldnt have any problems mate. Good luck Thumbs up look forward to seeing this hopefully next year
hi mate I'm gonna be doing something similar in the near future, was hoping you would show how u timed your pt81's as this is the only bit I'm unsure of. Any tips?
Posted 20th Nov 2013 at 16:56
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #39
markylee wrote:
eddy_gti6 wrote:
Id its done right and am sure it is you shouldnt have any problems mate. Good luck Thumbs up look forward to seeing this hopefully next year
hi mate I'm gonna be doing something similar in the near future, was hoping you would show how u timed your pt81's as this is the only bit I'm unsure of. Any tips?

It's not too hard to be honest, il be covering it in detail when I properly update this thread, basically you need a DTI (dial test indicator) and a timing disc for the crank to enable you to find 'True' top dead centre on cylinder one. There is a plenty of information on the net if you google it. I'll try get time to do a proper update this week describing how I did it. I need to as I'm about to start removing the old engine so I can fit this bad boy and get it run in! Hyper

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Posted 20th Nov 2013 at 22:54
markylee

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Post #40
Are you gonna be putting bodies on it or do you think you will reach 200 bhp without
Posted 21st Nov 2013 at 15:43
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #41
markylee wrote:
Are you gonna be putting bodies on it or do you think you will reach 200 bhp without

Once it's run in and running properly, il be fitting bodies but that's the next part of the project! Big grin

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Posted 21st Nov 2013 at 16:06
markylee

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Post #42
Doesnt that mean mapping it twice (twice the cost). Or is it essential to do this to make sure it's run in ok
Posted 21st Nov 2013 at 16:19
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #43
markylee wrote:
Doesnt that mean mapping it twice (twice the cost). Or is it essential to do this to make sure it's run in ok
I bought the cams with an unlocked ecu which was mapped already for the cams, so I'm going to run it in on that, then add the bodies and get it mapped!

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Posted 21st Nov 2013 at 18:32
markylee

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Post #44
Did you consider knife edge the crank, balancing rods etc.. Sorry for all the questions, I'm just finding as much info as poss b4 my build
Posted 21st Nov 2013 at 18:47
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #45
Right so as seems to be customary for me it's been a long time since I updated this thread so here goes, the engine is built and as I write this update I'm part way through removing the old engine from the car ready to do some much needed tidying up in the engine bay! Then the all important engine fitting.
To answer a few questions, timing the cams up correctly takes patience and time. Definately not a job to be rushed, I'd never done it before therefore did a bit of research into the subject before finally doing the job. I used this guide http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/Cam_Timing.html get the correct method then obviously used timing information from the specs on the kent cams website. To get the timing spot on may require a few goes but I got there in the end! So now I'm looking forward to turning the key in the next few weeks and all being well it firing into life! Fingers crossed....
A couple of pictures of the process....
Finding Top dead centre

Timing up the exhaust cam

I didn't take many photos due to me concentrating but you get the idea...
I have also just for the interest of it bought a low mileage box to go with this and carried out a push clutch conversion using a BX GTI clutch, a 205 gti release arm and late 205 GTI cable.
Hopefully the next time I update this the engine will be fitted and running... Fingers crossed!

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Posted 10th Mar 2014 at 23:47
eddy_gti6

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Post #46
Nice little update lee. Did you get the pin out of the clutch arm ok? I was having a right hassle on so ended up just smashing the box aroun it to remove it Laugh my ass off
Summers on its was so time to get cracking, no excuses about you not having time. You need to make time Wink looking forward to seeing the outcome on this

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Posted 11th Mar 2014 at 14:21
prism7guy

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Post #47
Nice update Lee, will be good to see this out on track again at some point this year. Thumbs up

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Posted 20th Mar 2014 at 19:33
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #48
Cheers steve! Hopefully il be done in about two weeks, the engine is currently hanging on two mounts awaiting lifting out this weekend, then I need to deal with the engine bay Tin worm..... Sad
Eddy yes the pin came out ok, dunno why you would of had an issue?? Flew out with a good belt with an air cooled fine adjustment tool! Thumbs up

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Posted 20th Mar 2014 at 21:11
eddy_gti6

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Post #49
Well I enjoyed smashing the box up anyway Laugh my ass off my grips are a bit worn now and kept on slipping off so thought I would take the easy rout

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Posted 20th Mar 2014 at 22:20
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #50
Okay, so 2 weeks turned into 3 months..... However the engine is now in and tonight kicked into life for the first time! Big grin I primed the engine with oil by spinning over on the starter with the plugs removed and the fuel pump relay disconnected, then fitted the plugs and fuel pump relay and it fired first push of the button! It seems to run ok, no dodgy noises good oil pressure etc so I'm quite happy with that. Il update properly in the next day or so with pictures etc! Smile

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Posted 17th Jun 2014 at 23:58

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