displaying posts 1 to 25 of 25

Author Subject: Supercharged 306 with Air Con and PAS
toby

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bourne

Registered: 13 Dec 2007

Posts: 1,400

Status: Offline

Post #1
Sorry its been a while coming, i've only finished the project six months now.LOL However it has given me time to get 2000 miles done in the car as a daily commute and touch wood its been totally reliable.

From the start I decided that I must retain the air con and come up with another way of doing the PAS. For those that don't know the issue you basically sacrifice the air con system to give you room for the Supercharger to fit.

It was suggested from the start that the 106/Saxo electric PAS pump would be a good route and indeed it is. Its a very simple unit which basically uses a 12v supply which runs the pump all the while in ignition position two. I retained the 306's PAS resovoir and used the 106/Saxo pump which has the small remote resovoir (this resovoir was discarded) The other type has the resovoir built into the base of the pump but would have to be fitted horizontally opposed to vertically which in turn would make it difficult if not impossible to fit.

You also need the right angled bracket that comes with the pump and the two metal straps that hold the pump to the bracket. The bracket allows the pump to be fitted nicely into the corner of the engine bay where the standard cars air filter normally takes up residence.











The bracket comes with a handy pair of lugs to hang the superchargers traction fluid resovoir from. Sorry about the image quality, that's late nights and a dodgy camara phone for you, you tend to forget about picture quality when your in the middle of a project.Smile

There is a fair amount of weight to the pump so i ran two M10 bolts through the entire chassis rail section and nyloc'd them to avoid anything working loose over time. The exact position of the bracket is difficult as you have all sorts of odd studs for earthing wires etc in the way plus the radiator etc, then on top of that the bolts need to go through the chassis rail at a point you can get nylocs on the back of them. Treat any holes you drill in the bodywork to prevent corrosion. I would advise using this bracket as you get the anti vibration rubber mounts, mounting the pump directly to the bodywork would give a massive amount of vibration and noise. I was a little concerned that the straps around the pump with the rubber in between wouldn't be enough to hold the pump vertically but seemed to have survived the last 2000 miles without moving, in a rally environment this would be entirely different and additional support would be needed.

Connection to the pump electrically needs to be done via relays as there is a large amount of current supplying the pump under load. I used the short loom that comes from the 106/saxo then routed the 12v supply and relay trigger from the batteries fuse box on the right. I would advise using at least a 40 amp inline fuse and make sure connections to it are good, I got a fuse holder from an old 306 wiring loom. There is a handy bus bar in the fuse box to make your power connections to and one, and only 'one' ignition position 2 wire on the back relay you can piggy back off to trigger the PAS relays.

Yes it does all go back in!


I've tried driving the car without the pump running which feels great as the feedback from the road is suberb however at parking speeds its obviously heavy and cornering at speed gives you a real workout! I might experiment with some varible force system when i get time but to be fair the electric system feels no different from the mechanical system on all GTI-6's.

Connecting hydraulic wise, if using the 306's resovoir you need to block off one of the inlets in the EPAS (electric power steering unit) plastic body, from memory i ran an M10 or M12 tap in one of the pipes then screwed an M10/12 x 20mm bolt in which has sealed it fine. The other inlet hole is used for the fluid coming in from the 306 resovoir. The piece of pipe RichW sends with his supercharger kit fits nicely on here and runs up to the end of the old pipe which would have gone to the old PAS pump and can be connected using the right angled blue elbow joint supplied. You could of course use the resovoir supplied with the 106/saxo pump but then you have to find somewhere to locate it and you'd still have to route the return from the PAS rack back to the pump so I feel the original route is easier and looks nicer, more OEM.

Now to the tricky bit and i'm sorry I haven't taken photographs. The high pressure hose that used to go to the mechanical pump is long enough to be manipulated to go to the other side of the engine bay to the electric pump. However it screws onto the new pumps outlet but as the outlet is slightly deeper it doesn't bottom out and pinch the pipe olive to make a seal. There are two routes here and after the hassle I had I would favour the first which is to have a new pipe made up by a hydraulics pipe maker to run from the EPAS to the PAS Rack. It could be made exactly to length and have the right elbows etc to fit.

I however ground a few mm from the height of the EPAS outlet after stuffing some tissue inside to stop the fillings going in, this gave the reduced height i needed for the old hose to fit, however when fitting it in situe i managed to strip the threads and crack the outlet. Thankfully a business friend (thanks Channing Engineering) Drilled it all out and made an entirely new steel insert which screws into a bigger hole and works fine. I'm not saying its not possible to go this route but be very careful grinding down the alloy housing its not very strong and easily cross threaded. Going this route also requires that the base of the pump (the plastic part) is unbolted and rotated 90 degrees so that the old hydraulic hose comes into it from the side facing the gearbox, this also requires some deft manipulation of the steel PAS pipe to fit. Like I said earlier I would pay the money and have a pipe made up unless youre really determined.
LOL



You can just make out the general direction of the high pressure pipe from the engine to the EPAS.

Once your EPAS system is all in place and working (you can test it without the engine running of course!)you can start on the front end - all those radiators!

Without going into too much detail i junked the original fan and cowling but carefully cut the bottom strip off the original cowling to give me the coolant radiator and air con rad the correctly spaced mounting points but more so something to hold the rubber anti vibration bushes.





I then made some simple brackets from 20mm x 5mm steel to support the intercooler (from Forge Motorsport) click Its the type 05.

You need to mount a pair of slimline Spal fans onto the aircon rad and wire them up to the same cables that supplied the original fans. Use the original fan relay box and tuck it away, I originally chose here.



Which is fine if you have a Rallye but no good if you have spot lights! There is however plenty of room just behind this point.
Once the fans are in place this leaves just enough room to hang the intercooler in front though you will need to take a small chunk out the inside of the bumper either side to allow the intercooler to clear, there is plenty of depth to the bumper and you are only removing about 20mm of plastic to allow the intercooler corners to sit into it.

As a reference I have used the two holes that Peugeot have kindly left either side of the cowling appature on the slam panel.



The metal strip is the stood off the panel by some 20mm spacers which gave the correct distance for the intercooler to clear, on my car anyway! I think its one of those trial and error things which could be individual to every car.
The radiator for the Supercharger traction fluid is then mounted above. It doesn't get a lot of air most of the time but for road use is not really needed, i figured for track use i could remove the plastic slam panel trim that hides it normally to give it as much air needed.

You will notice the green pipe in some pics, this was used to work out the angles/lengths for the boost piping without having to weld then trial it. It was basically irrigation pipe that fitted the alloy boost pipe perfectly. It was then removed and silicon boost pipe joiners used as well as the newly welded aluminium pipe. I tried to keep the flexible joiners to a minimum but you need to bare in mind the engine will move forward and back under load so some flexibility in the pipework will be needed where it meets the fixed intercooler.

The piping from the Supercharger to the intercooler was particularly difficult as it needs to scoot around the aircon pump, its obviously doable but I spent a day on this alone trying to get all the angles correct.Shock



Its tight, early workings for pipe length and angles.

I am considering fitting an oil cooler which would help keep engine temp down for the track, for the road its fine but with the air con rad in the way the coolant rad gets less cool air. It would also allow a bit more room for the Supercharger to intercooler pipe which sits close to the oil filter.

________________________________________

Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
Posted 8th Jan 2009 at 05:06
buzzbrightyear

Seasoned Pro

Location: hiding all receipts for car

Registered: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 11,894

Status: Offline

Post #2
nice read mate, when i charge mine i would also want to keep both air con and power steering.
good work

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1
Posted 27th Jan 2009 at 08:07
jib

Seasoned Pro

Location: Doncaster

Registered: 21 Feb 2008

Posts: 1,842

Status: Offline

Post #3
Looking good!

Those intercooler pipes look awfully low though!
Posted 30th Dec 2008 at 18:10
toby

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bourne

Registered: 13 Dec 2007

Posts: 1,400

Status: Offline

Post #4
Those intercooler pipes are odd and its been said before they look low but once the bottom trim is on the front bumper you can't even see them so unless you deck the car on its bump stops you are a fair few inches off the road. My car is lowered slightly (30mm) on 15" standard rims with 195/50/15 tyres and I clear most kerbs (not that i try to park on them!) The front black plastic trim would catch before the pipe, i'll try and take some measurements and get some decent pics up.

I forgot to add, its well worth putting in a new air con rad while you're at it, I got a mobile guy to come out and take out the old and put in the new while it was all stripped down and it cost

________________________________________

Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
Posted 31st Dec 2008 at 15:20
toby

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bourne

Registered: 13 Dec 2007

Posts: 1,400

Status: Offline

Post #5
From the outside the car looks standard which was the whole idea, I suppose to the keen eye they may spot the intercooler lurking behind the grill.
Some pics all back together.









All work carried out in my double garage over the period of a month (June - best time of year for car work.Big grin ). I reckon I spent about 7 days on it, not allowing for bedtime thinking about problems.LOL

________________________________________

Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
Posted 8th Jan 2009 at 04:59
roland rat

Yeeeah Rat fans!

Location: Swansea

Registered: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 22,282

Status: Offline

Post #6
Top work mate Thumbs up

Did mine in 7 days in the rain on the drive in sept,never again! LOL

Excellent placement of fan relay housing mate,will be pinching that idea over the winter while i do a few bits to mine.
Posted 30th Dec 2008 at 22:41
rallyeash

Seasoned Pro

Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,424

Status: Offline

Post #7
love it! looks a tidy job Smile

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 30th Dec 2008 at 22:37
RichardE

Seasoned Pro

Location: In a computer

Registered: 20 Feb 2006

Posts: 3,936

Status: Offline

Post #8
f*cking quality!
Love Love

Best colour, best way of doing it, factory look and no loss of original features.

The way it should be done. What power is it running? Low/High boost?

________________________________________

Volvo XC60 SE Lux Premium AWD + Appearance Packs + Various Options
  • K&N Panel Filter
  • Polestar Tuning Chip
  • All Weather Tyres
  • (355BHP & 507NM Torque)

    Posted 30th Dec 2008 at 22:38
    toby

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Bourne

    Registered: 13 Dec 2007

    Posts: 1,400

    Status: Offline

    Post #9
    Fair play for doing all the work on yours Roland Rat, outside in the rain thats dedication for you. Its the main reason why I bought a house with a double garage for all those projects. I suppose at least doing them outside it forces you to get on with it and get it finished.

    Yeah the base of the old fan housing is ideal, it takes a little work to cut it out neatly but it literary is just the flat bottom. I was originally scratching my head for a while wondering how i was going to support both rads and had visions of making various brackets, then after calling myself a twat for not thinking of it earlier....the hacksaw came out.LOL

    As for the fan relay box it was a great idea on a car without the spot lights which intrude into this space, I had to move mine back from here but there is loads of room behind.

    ________________________________________

    Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
    Posted 31st Dec 2008 at 15:24
    toby

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Bourne

    Registered: 13 Dec 2007

    Posts: 1,400

    Status: Offline

    Post #10
    Mine is currently just running the low boost and it will probably stay that way, I'm not about to sink thousands more into the high boost set-up which wouldn't be just that, it would need the brakes (i currently run standard discs with Ferrodo DS2500 fast road pads that work very well), suspension, LSD etc etc doing as well. Currently wth its 250BHP (i would like to get it dynoed to check it but it feels strong enough)it is a great drive, reliable, fun and to be honnest probably fast enough for the local B and C roads it lives on. All weighed in with everything including a boot full of hi-fi its exactly 1200kg which gives the car about 208 bhp per ton if its throwing out 250 from the engine. This makes it E46 M3 territory given that the rear wheel drive M3 probably has slightly more power loss from the transmission. Either way both cars are between 12-13 seconds from 0-100 so it doesn't hang about, in fact you have to be very careful what speed you get up to as you approach corners, I've been caught out quite a few times and thats just buzzing along in sixth gear without tying! If you go for it out of a bend you can be up to 130 leptons within such a short distance its good fun.

    ________________________________________

    Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
    Posted 31st Dec 2008 at 15:27
    matsoki

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: In the garage.....

    Registered: 08 Oct 2007

    Posts: 1,192

    Status: Offline

    Post #11
    Good work Toby, TBH if I had A/C I would want to keep it too.......

    But I have a Rallye, so Ive got feck-all.....

    ________________________________________

    Built on 25th November 1998... That was a Wednesday..... Thank God it wasn't a Friday!

    RIP - Pete Sims
    Posted 2nd Jan 2009 at 00:04
    toby

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Bourne

    Registered: 13 Dec 2007

    Posts: 1,400

    Status: Offline

    Post #12
    I found the conversion very simple and easy in the end and like anything just take your time over it. Everytime i encountered a problem I spent time thinking up a logical solution opposed to rushing into the first thing I thought of.

    I know most if not all have junked their air con so far as it appears the general consensus is its troublesome. I think that actually in reality its something that afflicts all manufacturers cars once they reach the age of ours, mine lasted 8 years which i think is fair, its failing was the radiator which is par for the course when its subject to all the road crap thrown up at it. As its not a necessity most don't bother spending precious money getting them fixed.

    Incidently I forgot to mention earlier that the drive belt which runs the air con PAS and Alternator on the standard car also exactly fits the set-up retaining the air con on the Supercharged conversion. If you go with junking the air con and relocating the mechanical PAS pump to where the air con normally sits as is the norm in RichW's conversion then it uses a shorter belt that he provides in the kit.

    ________________________________________

    Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
    Posted 2nd Jan 2009 at 16:50
    fletch

    Track Head

    Location: The nearest Shell garage

    Registered: 12 Jun 2004

    Posts: 12,273

    Status: Offline

    Post #13
    Nice work toby. I was initially going to go down this route, but got impatient and figured we have more bad weather than good so ditched the idea.

    [shameless plug]Still have a 106 EPAS pump if anyone is following in Tobys footsteps[/]
    Posted 2nd Jan 2009 at 22:07
    buzzbrightyear

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: hiding all receipts for car

    Registered: 09 Jul 2008

    Posts: 11,894

    Status: Offline

    Post #14
    ive got to supercharge ours, please rich please do just 1 last group buy this year, please!!!!

    ________________________________________

    andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
    Moonstone phase 7 gti6
    My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1
    Posted 2nd Jan 2009 at 22:14
    sacko_gti6

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Kent

    Registered: 12 May 2008

    Posts: 4,783

    Status: Offline

    Post #15
    andy+katie wrote:
    ive got to supercharge ours, please rich please do just 1 last group buy this year, please!!!!


    malin has one, or did have when i last saw him..

    ________________________________________

    Build Date - 30 September 1997 - Tuesday's car..is full of pace? Wink

    Posted 2nd Jan 2009 at 22:23
    deepakg

    Junior User

    Location: Somewhere

    Registered: 27 Dec 2008

    Posts: 54

    Status: Offline

    Post #16
    Hiya Toby, i'm really impressed with what you've done. you've got a real element of professionalism and craftsmanship in your work. it's a shame you don't live closer, would have liked to have worked with you. oh well mate. well done though, it's a very nice car Smile
    Posted 8th Jan 2009 at 02:14
    toby

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Bourne

    Registered: 13 Dec 2007

    Posts: 1,400

    Status: Offline

    Post #17
    Thanks for the comments.

    Anyone wishing to have a look at the conversion and have a chat or even a ride out in the car are more than welcome if they're in the area.

    I'll try and get some decent pics up when time and light are on my side.

    ________________________________________

    Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
    Posted 8th Jan 2009 at 04:57
    earlbob

    Newbie

    Location: Glossop

    Registered: 24 Mar 2009

    Posts: 1

    Status: Offline

    Post #18
    Wow i live like 1 ½ hours ish away from you, if im ever going down that way and you still have it would love to see it. Best way to improve a car is by keeping it looking the same. I would much rather have a 400bhp 4wd Fiat Panda (1988) that a 400Bhp ferarri just for the laugh factor, that your could smoke anything in sight...before the car ripped itself up.. anyhoo great job on the conversion

    ________________________________________

    Production of the 306 needs to come back as it and the 205 are the best peugeots created, looks and performance!!!
    Posted 24th Mar 2009 at 03:16
    allesclar

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: Sheffield

    Registered: 17 May 2009

    Posts: 4,254

    Status: Offline

    Post #19
    could you not paint the intercooler black to hide it? Razz nice post btw Smile

    ________________________________________

    Team allesclar ®

    Posted 18th Jul 2009 at 19:36
    Wilde Haren

    Newbie

    Location: Utrecht

    Registered: 10 Sep 2018

    Posts: 28

    Status: Offline

    Post #20
    11 years later and I still find this thread very useful!
    Managed to find a spot for my 106 epas pump and now I need to figure out how to connect the wires.
    Does anyone have better pictures or a good written explanation of what to connect where? Most importantly, where do you piggyback onto to get the 12v to power the relay once you turn the key?

    Many thanks in advance from a soon to be super powered 306 owner.
    Posted 4th Mar 2020 at 20:30
    miki4

    Regular

    Location: Cologne

    Registered: 09 Nov 2015

    Posts: 389

    Status: Offline

    Post #21
    I will be doing this in the next couple of weeks. My plan is to get constant 12 V directly from the battery (high current) and tap a switched live (ignition) from the fuse box next to the battery. My concern with this is that the EPAS would be running everytime the ignition is switched on. Maybe I will take the switched 12 V for the fuel pump at the double relay and / or even wire in a switch.
    Posted 5th Mar 2020 at 09:34
    vts_gav

    Regular

    Location: Redcar

    Registered: 12 Jun 2009

    Posts: 367

    Status: Offline

    Post #22
    Random thought. If the E-pas use a direct feed 12volt to run the pump constantly, these must have some systems of vairable assistance. could you fit a variable resistior like the dash dimmer to drop the voltage and thus slow the pump and lower the pressure. Surely this would make the assistance less and the nice heavy feedback there but switchable.
    Posted 5th Mar 2020 at 15:45
    prism7guy

    Seasoned Pro

    Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

    Registered: 13 Jan 2008

    Posts: 4,640

    Status: Offline

    Post #23
    It would need to be one hell of a variable resistor to handle the amount of current the pumps suck. I'm pretty sure mine uses a 60A fuse which I haven't blown yet, but i've upset a smaller alternator several times melting internal wires.
    My relay is powered by a manual switch, mainly so i just turn it on once the engine is running.

    ________________________________________

    Goldie the track car.
    Posted 5th Mar 2020 at 16:26
    miki4

    Regular

    Location: Cologne

    Registered: 09 Nov 2015

    Posts: 389

    Status: Offline

    Post #24
    It should be possible to reduce the speed of the pump with an appropriately dimensioned PWM controller without great losses. Would be a nice add-on. Big grin
    Posted 5th Mar 2020 at 17:35
    Wilde Haren

    Newbie

    Location: Utrecht

    Registered: 10 Sep 2018

    Posts: 28

    Status: Offline

    Post #25
    Wow, how's that for a thread revival ;-) Still people doing SC conversions!

    Since I don't want to hijack someone else's forum post, I create my own post in the electrical section. I'm in the process of answering my own question and I'll try to post pictures of my findings so that it might benefit others.

    See 106 epas relay trigger
    Posted 8th Mar 2020 at 10:51

    All times are GMT. The time is now 12:45

    The Peugeot GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club - ©2024 all rights reserved.

    Please Note: The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club or any individuals involved.
    No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy.