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Author Subject: Max lift at TDC?
paulvancraen

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Post #101
Thanks.

So the only reason why you didn't go with the RFY bottom end is the sharper angle and the heavier pistons?
Seems a bit drastic to me Razz They work pretty good on the RFY too right Wink
Posted 5th May 2012 at 11:10
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #102
no, I used the RFS as my engine was an RFS, the original RFY span a bearing, then the RFS did the HG and I got the pistons modified at the same time then put PH2's in.

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Posted 5th May 2012 at 19:09
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #103
Bumping this so it doesn't get auto deleted...

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Posted 28th Mar 2013 at 14:52
JWP EFi

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Post #104
good shout mei. its been a very educational thread to me and no doubt many others
Posted 30th Mar 2013 at 17:38
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #105
welshpug! wrote:
Bumping this so it doesn't get auto deleted...


TTL's I believe are set at two years for this particular forum...

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Posted 30th Mar 2013 at 17:41
welshpug!

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Post #106
how was I supposed to know that eh? plenty of useful threads already gone too.

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Posted 30th Mar 2013 at 17:52
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #107
welshpug! wrote:
how was I supposed to know that eh? plenty of useful threads already gone too.


Yes, no worries. A good idea to bump anyway as said, it holds a lot of useful information which we do wish to keep. Yes

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 30th Mar 2013 at 17:57
elpatron

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Post #108
I play with the possibility to build a 2.1L engine out of my s16 engine.

So a question that is arrond at the moment is if i can still use some cams with 1.65mm lift at tdc safely or do the RFY pistons need bigger cutouts machined to get away with that sort of lift?



Posted 15th Aug 2013 at 15:51
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #109
no idea, you will need to do a dry build and measure up.

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Posted 16th Jul 2014 at 19:08
adam b

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Post #110
Bump for non-delete

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Posted 10th Mar 2015 at 21:54
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #111
adam b wrote:
Bump for non-delete

Good call! Thumbs up

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Posted 10th Mar 2015 at 22:32
blandy

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Post #112
Brilliant read. Makes me wonder if I'll have enough room with my bp285h once the cut outs are enlarged either way careful measuring will be needed.

On that note I'm the spirt of learning I was looking at some adverts for forged Pistons/rods and they seem to give measurements and also compression ratio info but never any mention of the valve clearance at tdc. Is this figure not as important with forged as they have plenty of room? As I can't see it being that easy
Posted 7th Dec 2015 at 22:39
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #113
it certainly isnt that easy, if you ask for the drawings the details will be on there, this is where its definitely worth spending a few hundred extra and getting a proper reputable brand, and getting a set made to your spec.

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Posted 7th Dec 2015 at 22:44
blandy

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Post #114
welshpug! wrote:
Here's a list of the first two cams from Kent and Piper, and the only stats I have so far for Newmans

PT80, 1.65mm Lift @ TDC, Full lift timed to 110degrees, only slightly less duration and peak lift than PT81, and a near standard exhaust cam, too close for comfort.

PT81, 1.65mm Lift @ TDC, Full lift timed to 110degrees. DITTO!

Piper BP270H 1.09mm lift @ TDC, 110 deg timing for peak Just about safe

Piper BP285H 1.82mm Lift @ TDC 108 deg inlet 110 deg definitely not safe!

Newmans PH2, 1.4mm @ TDC, Full lift timed to 110degrees. just about safe.


Just lookingg at your measurements how do you gauge the actual clearance between the valve and piston?

At a guess would you set Pistons to tdc and set gauge to zero on the follower with the valve closed and then effectively drop a valve so it physically sits on top of the piston and measure the difference?

Pulling mine apart over the winter and quite looking forward to the build just trying to understand fully before I got a bench full of bits

I see some people like to use clay on top of the piston to measure the indentation of the valve
Posted 8th Dec 2015 at 19:05
pete_rallye

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Post #115
I assemble the valve, valve spring and retainer with a soft spring in it, then assemble the engine, put the piston to TDC and then physically push the valve down until it hits the piston, whilst using a dial gauge on top to measure the movement. Its also worth putting plasticine in the valve cut out so you can see how the valve sits in the cut out.

Things to note- Always check the valve clearance, you never know if a head or block may have been skimmed, tolerances can be out on cams and pistons. I do it on each valve, which is time consuming but guarantees it is safe.

When set up at the timing figures, it'll be the exhaust valve that is closest to the piston.

Mild cams should be fine with any aftermarket pistons, but I had to modify my Wossners very slightly with 12mm lift cams, set at 3.8mm and 3.7mm lift at tdc.

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Posted 8th Dec 2015 at 19:12
blandy

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Post #116
Thanks

Silly question where would you purchase softer springs.

I've got a set of bp285h on there way which I'm hoping to get away with having the standard cut outs enlarged but definately worth measuring it all up

With regards to having the standard Pistons modified they do the cut outs a mm deeper so is that exactly 1mm extra clearance I.e the valve sits perfectly in the piston cut out.

I.e I'm looking to measure up so hoping to have sat around a mm clearance standard and then having the cut outs done should give around the 2mm safe clearance as advised and obviously if I'm under a mm clearance on standard Pistons I'd prob need to look towards forged as the cut outs may not be deep enough even once enlarged ..
Hope that makes sense
Posted 8th Dec 2015 at 19:31
prism7guy

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Post #117
I think pete means just use the standard inner spring for the dry build when checking clearances.

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Posted 8th Dec 2015 at 20:37
pete_rallye

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Post #118
I was too much of a woose to push the valve down the full amount with the standard inner springs in, but then the cut outs are quite deep on the Wossners, so I actually made some springs the right size using spring steel! You can buy springs that'll do the job from ebay though.

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Posted 8th Dec 2015 at 21:08
prism7guy

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Post #119
Thread revival time.

From reading this thread, am I right in thinking that with standard cams there is 1.4mm of lift at TDC?
Is that a safe bet for working out valve clearance?

Ive just had a head skimmed and measured clearance to the piston, here are the results. Should I subtract 1.4mm from these to compensate for the initial amount of valve lift?

Inlet:
TDC 2.7mm
5* 2.7mm
10* 3.2mm
15* 3.7mm
20* 4.4mm

Exhaust
TDC 3.6mm
5* 3.75mm
10* 4.3mm
15* 4.9mm
20* 5.35mm

Admittedly I didn't have access to a DTI for really accurate measurements, I used some digital calipers but the results should be fairly close.

Any help would be appreciated as I need to get the head built up asap.

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Posted 6th Jun 2017 at 21:12
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #120
Can't remember what standard cams have but its a lot less than 1.4mm of lift.

1.4 is what you can go to safely on a standard piston with an uprated cam, I believe Sabdy worked to a 1mm absolute minimum clearance, preferably 1.5mm especially if using more revs and more regularly.

your figures sound about right though, how much was taken from your head?

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Posted 6th Jun 2017 at 21:27
prism7guy

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Post #121
0.75mm Doh

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Posted 6th Jun 2017 at 21:37
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #122
ouch.

Peugeot state 0.2mm maximum.

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 7th Jun 2017 at 06:45
prism7guy

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Post #123
Yeah, I'm not best pleased!

I had the valve seats re-cut so they're around 0.25mm deeper, then had 0.5mm skimmed off the face of the inlet valves, hopefully that should take me back to around standardcleaeqnce.

I'm now debating whether to skim some off the exhaust valves to give them more clearance or whether they'll then get too hot and cause other issues.

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Posted 7th Jun 2017 at 12:28
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #124
what pistons do you have? you can pull some clearance back with a 1.4mm gasket.

when the head is skimmed that much its the radius of the cutout that needs checking as much as its depth due to the inclination of the valves.

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 7th Jun 2017 at 13:04
prism7guy

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Post #125
The Pistons are just stock ones.

I'd read that the 1.4mm gaskets are all fibre compared to MLS, I'd also read that fibre aren't as good as MLS, Ive got a MLS one spare sat at home ready to use, do you reckon it's worth phoning round to try and source a 1.4 gasket this afternoon?
It's for a supercharged engine, running around 6psi boost at the moment, but it regularly get put through its paces so I don't want to have to replace the gasket any time again soon.

I hadn't considered the valve clearance radially until you and phil mentioned it. Is there a trick to checking that?

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Posted 7th Jun 2017 at 14:09

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