Post #26
Note to self, must keep up with technology!
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Previous Peugeot - 2000(w)GTI-6, Me old China, Supercharged with working aircon!
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displaying posts 26 to 50 of 50
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| Author | Subject: Supercharger Kit (not the one you would expect!) |
 toby
Seasoned Pro  Location: Bourne Registered: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 1,400 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 28th May 2009 at 16:02
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jarrus464
Junior User  Location: Great Wyrley, Walsall Registered: 14 May 2007 Posts: 92 Status: Offline |
Post #27
Don't people like BBR run 275 hp with the standard charger on mini's?You guys seem to forget that it was originally designed for an engines between 2.0 and 3.0 litres. So should be good enough for the 6 if you want to run a lower power output |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:05
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dragoon
Seasoned Pro  Location: Ghent - Belgium Registered: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 1,071 Status: Offline |
Post #28
a mate of mine uses an M45 SC (with a smaller pulley) on his suzuki swift (1.6 16v)topic/specs here and ran 203bhp in the beginning, now with NO changes whatsoever, he's only running 188bhp anymore. They say it's due to the charger that has 'ran in'. thats a loss of 15bhp :/ Not what I call reliable or a good buy... And he'd never do it again (thats why he bought a V8 now I guess  )________________________________________ Team WheelwhoreTeam Limited Edition Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP Virtual Blue 208 GTi quote: I  this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh  |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:29
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lotek
Seasoned Pro  Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #29
base map on cd  |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:45
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #30
jarrus464 wrote: Don't people like BBR run 275 hp with the standard charger on mini's? You guys seem to forget that it was originally designed for an engines between 2.0 and 3.0 litres. So should be good enough for the 6 if you want to run a lower power output Correct! My 205 with an m45 runs 250 bhp all day long and could easily make more if I thought the engine would take it. My 6 engined 309 will be getting charged with an m45 in the near future and I expect it to be equally as good of not better. I expect an m45 (running to 14k at rev limit) on a 6 engine to make 250+ bhp. Dragoon, I think your mates been misinformed. Eaton chargers (especially the newer ones with coated rotors) get better once run in. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:55
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lotek
Seasoned Pro Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #31
allenyou gonna make a fitting kit or make detailed notes to pass on to other peo,le interested in doing this when you charge the 309? |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:57
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lotek
Seasoned Pro Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #32
as in dimentions and/or scale drawnings of parts like mounting brackets? |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 00:59
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro  Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #33
+1________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:07
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #34
lotek wrote: allen you gonna make a fitting kit or make detailed notes to pass on to other peo,le interested in doing this when you charge the 309? I'm a machinist/engineer and have recently started working for a company that encourages stuff like this so I will hopefully be looking at making some kits up. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:19
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SteviePut
Seasoned Pro  Location: Down south Registered: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 13,637 Status: Offline |
Post #35
What supercharger do they use on the Lotus Elise SC? They claim that it doesn't need any additional cooling altho I suspect they're not using much boost. I believe it to be different to the one they use on the Exige  ________________________________________ My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it? |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:19
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #36
SteviePut wrote: What supercharger do they use on the Lotus Elise SC? They claim that it doesn't need any additional cooling altho I suspect they're not using much boost. I believe it to be different to the one they use on the Exige The exige uses an m62 and the Elise uses an m45. I think the Elise is nearly 220bhp with no intercooler so they're obviously not the little hot air pumps like everyone assumes. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:29
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SteviePut
Seasoned Pro Location: Down south Registered: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 13,637 Status: Offline |
Post #37
Lotus claim the Elise charger to be their own design. Or at least that's what the "Autocar" review saidOh and the early supercharged Exiges were only 220bhp. The Elise is 217bhp btw - just to split hairs lol ________________________________________ My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it? |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:47
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #38
Running a 5th gen M45 on the elise, coated rotors and higher speed rated for the bearings/rotor surface speed.They'd have an intercooler on it if they could fit one in though.... ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 01:58
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adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #39
Phil I get the feeling that you don't like these chargers very much Going to ask HFHs if they can fit one to my volvo if I get bored tomorrow. ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:06
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro  Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,752 Status: Offline |
Post #40
allanallen wrote: jarrus464 wrote: Don't people like BBR run 275 hp with the standard charger on mini's? You guys seem to forget that it was originally designed for an engines between 2.0 and 3.0 litres. So should be good enough for the 6 if you want to run a lower power output Correct! My 205 with an m45 runs 250 bhp all day long and could easily make more if I thought the engine would take it. My 6 engined 309 will be getting charged with an m45 in the near future and I expect it to be equally as good of not better. I expect an m45 (running to 14k at rev limit) on a 6 engine to make 250+ bhp. Dragoon, I think your mates been misinformed. Eaton chargers (especially the newer ones with coated rotors) get better once run in. 14k rev limit on a 6 engine ?? me thinks that will jump right out of the car with pistons rods and bits of engine firing in all directions  |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:11
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #41
I like the chargers very much indeed, and I love what allen has managed with his car - in fact we've got an M90 winging it's way over from the states for the buggy at the minute (£115 delivered for a 15k mile old charger, can't turn that down, M62's are peanuts over there too) - it's just at this power level you're running well out of their efficiency peak, nearly half the power to drive the charger is going into heating the air up - you'd be better off with an M62 at this level, and you have less wear and tear on the charger too.________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 19th Jan 2011 at 04:04
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #42
bigbadbowen wrote: 14k rev limit on a 6 engine ?? me thinks that will jump right out of the car with pistons rods and bits of engine firing in all directions On the 'charger yer plank ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:16
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #43
phillipm wrote: Running a 5th gen M45 on the elise, coated rotors and higher speed rated for the bearings/rotor surface speed. They'd have an intercooler on it if they could fit one in though.... Very true, I wouldn't run one un-intercooled on a performance engine. Although upto 5-6 psi you may well get away with the charge temps. Are the 5th gen chargers rated to a higher max rpm then? Thought all the 45/62s were 14k limit? The elise's charger may well be eaton m45 guts in there own casing. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:18
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #44
The reason I'm going for a 45 again is simply availability. As you say Phil, 62s are 10 a penny in the us but they're all fairly badly shaped for aftermarket conversion. The merc ones that show up over here are a pain as you need to swap the clutched pulley for a snout and they're stupid money.M90s are oversized and overweight for what I'm after unfortunatly as they're cheap aswell. I don't think 45s are overstressed at 250bhp on a 2.0 engine though. For 250 bhp on a 6 you'll need around 7-8psi from a 45 which is within it's efficiency range especially when intercooled. It's only when you start getting north of 10psi you get problems with heat and power tailing of up at the top. My charge temps at 8psi are spot on with a fairly small intercooler. Intact they're considerably better than my bosses imprezza with an aftermarket top mount intercooler!! ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:39
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jeffers
Forum Admin Location: Leeds Registered: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 3,702 Status: Offline |
Post #45
bigbadbowen wrote: allanallen wrote: jarrus464 wrote: Don't people like BBR run 275 hp with the standard charger on mini's? You guys seem to forget that it was originally designed for an engines between 2.0 and 3.0 litres. So should be good enough for the 6 if you want to run a lower power output Correct! My 205 with an m45 runs 250 bhp all day long and could easily make more if I thought the engine would take it. My 6 engined 309 will be getting charged with an m45 in the near future and I expect it to be equally as good of not better. I expect an m45 (running to 14k at rev limit) on a 6 engine to make 250+ bhp. Dragoon, I think your mates been misinformed. Eaton chargers (especially the newer ones with coated rotors) get better once run in. 14k rev limit on a 6 engine ?? me thinks that will jump right out of the car with pistons rods and bits of engine firing in all directions Chris if you read it he says the charger will run at 14 k RPM at rev limit, not the engine revving to 14k!  ________________________________________ Team Running Engine again!Team Negative Camber! My Budget track engine build thread! Now appearing at a Trackday near you!! |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:42
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coskev
Seasoned Pro  Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #46
bigbadbowen wrote: allanallen wrote: jarrus464 wrote: Don't people like BBR run 275 hp with the standard charger on mini's? You guys seem to forget that it was originally designed for an engines between 2.0 and 3.0 litres. So should be good enough for the 6 if you want to run a lower power output Correct! My 205 with an m45 runs 250 bhp all day long and could easily make more if I thought the engine would take it. My 6 engined 309 will be getting charged with an m45 in the near future and I expect it to be equally as good of not better. I expect an m45 (running to 14k at rev limit) on a 6 engine to make 250+ bhp. Dragoon, I think your mates been misinformed. Eaton chargers (especially the newer ones with coated rotors) get better once run in. 14k rev limit on a 6 engine ?? me thinks that will jump right out of the car with pistons rods and bits of engine firing in all directions Pretty sure hes talking RPM of the charger,not the engine!!!!!!! ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 02:58
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #47
allanallen wrote: I don't think 45s are overstressed at 250bhp on a 2.0 engine though. For 250 bhp on a 6 you'll need around 7-8psi from a 45 which is within it's efficiency range especially when intercooled. It's only when you start getting north of 10psi you get problems with heat and power tailing of up at the top. Yeah, probably not too much of a problem at those boost levels, not using much power to drive the charger anyway, but the efficiency tails off at all boost levels* north of 10krpm. Go on, you know you want to Shiny *They're actually more efficient at higher pressures because they have less comparatively less leakage past the rotors...part of the problem we've got with putting one on the buggy, needs loads of airflow but at a fairly low boost pressure = lots of leakage, hence the M90. A Rotrex would have been nice but this route works out a damn sight cheaper ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 04:15
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crf450
Senior User Location: belper Registered: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 502 Status: Offline |
Post #48
Allan as your the only one who seems to be talking from experience I'm gonna take your opinon as the correct one on this subject.If your getting 250bhp with a 45 bolted on to a standard Mi16 engine what would you expect to get from one with a simalar conversion to yours on a gti6 engine and since you did your conversion what sort of work has it done and what problems have you had with it? Cheers Martin. ________________________________________ Quote "da g man!" "You've only got to watch the "306 vs ringtaxi" video & you soon realise how good these mod's are! That guy is running Ash's 30mm ARB, Solid Mounts & 23mm Torsion Bars & some adjustments on the camber. Admittedly, the guy is an awesome driver, but it just go's to show how well these cars can handle with the right modification's |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 04:05
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #49
allanallen wrote: Are the 5th gen chargers rated to a higher max rpm then? Thought all the 45/62s were 14k limit? Don't know whether lotus alter the casing as you say, but I have heard they run different bearings compared to a standard model. They're good to 16k on the lotus so that and a different casing/inlet porting may be the reason  ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 05:20
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lotek
Seasoned Pro Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #50
allen im happy yo run a kit on the rallye if you make one,price dependant of course. i dont want to spank loads on such an old car when i could just buy a faster one instead haha add me to the top of you notification list!  |
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Posted 18th Jan 2011 at 18:54
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