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Author Subject: Alternative rotrex oil and filter.
allye

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Post #1
This may be a slightly "cat amongst the pigeons" situation but it's got to be worth a discussion, this forum needs one of those LOL

Now, we all know Rich supplies a fantastic service and his customer service is second to none etc etc. But I'd like to discuss alternative oil and filter.

Firstly the filter is as far as I can see just a magnetic inline oil filter and I've found filters that are identical just with different stickers on for £20 delivered advertised as transmission or PAS oil filters, please enlighten me if the rotrex supplied ones are of some incredible micron filtration number?

Oil, before you say it "why cheap out on £110 worth of oil on a expensive blower", to be honest I'm only about £700 into my entire kit so I'm fairly open to trying the jet oil 254 which according to some BMW owners in the mighty US of A is 99% the same as the SX150. Also after more digging it's what Mercedes owners use in their super chargers rather than the genuine Merc oil, I'm talking about the more modern AMG motors not the eatons. Those are what, 500/600bhp motors likely spinning he chargers quicker than rotrex's?

I honestly think using a oil with a 99% same make up isn't going to kill a charger, and at less than £20 a litre it's quite economical to change with your annual service prolonging charger life?

Let me get lube up ready for a raping. LOL Big grin

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 5th Nov 2016 at 19:01
manthos

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Location: Norwich

Registered: 29 Apr 2009

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Post #2
interesting..

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Posted 5th Nov 2016 at 20:16
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #3
I don't think the Merc's supercharger is traction drive? It's weird because the oil is what spins .

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Posted 5th Nov 2016 at 21:55
stef306

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Post #4
Guessing you can't use 5w/30 like I do in the eatons LOL

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Posted 5th Nov 2016 at 23:44
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #5
i dont think esso jet engine oil is traction fluid...

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Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 08:32
allye

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Post #6
Well according to some bloke off of that there inter webs on the line who had it analysed, it's 99% the same thing.

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 08:44
allye

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Post #7
stef306 wrote:
Guessing you can't use 5w/30 like I do in the eatons LOL


You can pipe down too!

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 08:44
allye

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Post #8
"I just received a response from Blackstone saying they received some rotrex oil for analysis in 2010. He said there wasn't a whole lot to it, it was very thin with some phosphorus and zinc present. "

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 08:53
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #9
so, what will you do when your £1700+ blower dies?

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Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 09:31
welshpug!

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Post #10
correction, £2200+ due to brexit.

lol.

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Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 09:34
allye

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Post #11
Well I'm already in the process of having both oils analysed. Obviously early days but you'd like to think a aviation oil of extremely similar properties will provide enough lubrication at the minimum.

I fully understand it's not just a lube but also provides the boost through I think witch craft?

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 09:37
allye

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Post #12
Oh and the jet oil is massively over spec'd for the Merc chargers.

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 09:38
ale624

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Post #13
Interesting, if it is so similar it may pay to just change it more often, that's always a good thing Smile
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 11:52
rich_w

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Post #14
I agree the Rotrex fluid must be comparable to something else on the market, however I can't see it being similar to jet engine oil.

As I understand it, SX100/150 is a traction fluid, which becomes more viscous under sever pressure. This is what allows the mechanism within the supercharger to provide drive, without slip (there are no gears etc).

I can't see how a jet engine oil would behave in this way.

There is no requirement for becoming viscous under pressure, in fact you would want the opposite it a jet engine.

I guess it's up to you, but IMO, you would either be desperate or stupid to put anything in there other than SX150. It's not worth potentially damaging a £2k supercharger to save £100, is it?!

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Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 13:37
allye

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Post #15
That makes a lot of sense rich, I'm not giving up on this though. I'm talking to a company that performs oil analysis on all sorts of things, I've got maybe 1/4 of a bottle of sx150 so I may send that over.

I simply refuse to accept there is no alternative or compatible oil out there that needs to perform in the same way.

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 14:02
rich_w

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Post #16
Yeah agreed there must be something else out there.

How much does the analysis cost, and how accurate/detailed is this? I am no chemical engineer, but can imagine there's different degrees of analysis. Presumably basic testing can determine the main composition of the oil, but I would have thought to properly understand how the ingredients are combined and how they behave, it would need much more detailed analysis, at a molecular level.


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rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk
07732 822546

Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 14:12
rich_w

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Post #17
Some previous discussion:

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=159657

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Contact Details:

rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk
07732 822546

Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 14:22
allye

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Post #18
I couldn't comment on how in depth the analysis is and it's something I'll run pass them. I've given that thread a read previously and Philipm being the clever chap he is suggesting it's nothing more than a fairly standard traction with a nice rotrex sticker on it got me thinking.

Makes sense they bottle the stuff and brand it up, tell us lot anything is uprated or performance and we'll stick out hands so deep in our pockets we tickle our feet, because we are mugs!

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 14:33
miki4

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Location: Cologne

Registered: 09 Nov 2015

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Post #19
Usually there must be a Safety Data Sheet (SDS / MSDS) available for chemicals like additives and motor oils which reveal their rough composition. This can be used to compare different fluids. This way I found out that three products of Liqui Moly, one "specialised" for valve cleaning, one for fuel system cleaning and one for injector cleaning, are one and the same product. In this case I did not find an SDS but Rotrex will need to hand it out if you ask for it.

Another important question: Where did you get your supercharger kit for £700? LOL
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 15:02
allye

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Post #20
I bought a converted car which was a really good nic base, put it all back to standard and sold it for too dollar.

Resulting in a rather well priced 250bhp.

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 14:59
miki4

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Post #21
A dream. Haven't seen a charged one for sale for a while. I'll be happy when my '6 is back on the road with the engine I recently bought.
Posted 6th Nov 2016 at 15:06
phillipm

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Post #22
As Rich says - the traction fluid thickens massively under pressure - it actually becomes almost plastic in form between the rollers to transmit the power.
Regular oils do it to some extent but it's usually much more of an effect in a traction fluid.

The Merc chargers are completely different - it's only a pair of meshing gears in those, so disregard anything to do with them

Now, do I believe Rotrex are making their own special fluid? No, it's likely a commercial fluid from a mining truck, tractor or similar running CVT roller/disc drives. However, it's probably very thin because of the sheer revs involved so that does help narrow it down some - it's probably an ISO32 or lower - have a look at Santotrac 32 or whatever the Varitrac cold weather fluid is called these days.

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Posted 9th Nov 2016 at 19:17
allye

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Post #23
Thanks Phillipm, Santotrac is a extremely speclised oil similar to SX150 I assume! Only one distributor from what I can see,

http://www.skygeek.com/santo-lubes-santotrac-50-traction-fluid-qt.html

Also just the same cost as SX150 from the states, equally likely to get stung on taxs too and with the current exchange it's no cheaper! (Unsure if it's how all traction lubricants are bottles but the bottle is very similar to SX fluids)

Oil analysis is £55 and apparently they can tell me what it's similar too. This might be a dead end after all as the true traction oils I've come across are actually no cheaper, are rotrex actually supplying a ok price then!?

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 11th Nov 2016 at 10:44
allye

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Post #24
I wish rotrex would supply a data sheet like the santotrac/most lubricant manufacturers do (appreciate rotrex don't brew the stuff personally but suppliers surely have this info)

________________________________________

205 Van SC'd GTI6 - because why not
309 Goodwood V6 - sold
205 Rallye GTI6 - Bent
Posted 11th Nov 2016 at 10:48
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

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Post #25
They'll have the info, but they won't want you using anything but what they designed around so they don't get it in the nec k come warranty time.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 11th Nov 2016 at 12:17

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