Building a high boost engine - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Building a high boost engine

jamiek_uk2000

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Location: Llanelli

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Post #1

Is it a wise idea to undertake this in my garage? I've done almost everything else but never an engine and with it being high boost am I asking for trouble doing it myself?

I'm having the head done by an engine builder.

I am good with my hands and I've been a pipe fitter for the past few years and have almost every tool you could ever need. Or do I wait a few months and get it done properly?

Would I save money by stripping the engine ready?

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 12:57

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demondriverdan

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Post #2

Might be worth picking up a spare engine and stripping it down first, to get an understanding of what everything is?

I've learnt a lot while rebuilding the race car's engine as I'd never touched it before. Luckily we had the spare car's engine to strip first to get an idea of what's difficult and what's not.

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 13:04

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pugheaven

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Post #3

Being an aircraft engineer my self I would like to think that I was skilled enough to build an engine but if you think about the cost involved if something went wrong, is it really worth the time and hassle and maybe cost if it did go wrong?
Just get lynx or rich to do it, I weighed up the options and got them to do it... upto you though

Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 13:47

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #4

Well the engine I have is spare and of an unknown history, I may strip it to find its chewed.

The main block I'm thinking of stripping down, then cleaning and painting before handing to an engine builder if so. Like you say its a lot of cost to go wrong but then do I have any comeback with lynx on an engine build?

If I strip and prep it, the main part is them just putting in the crank, pistons and rods and reconditioning the oil pump. Or am I way off?

Bolt the head on and then ancillaries? That's easy enough since I'll be fitting the charger then.

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306 GTi 6 Diablo - Being resurrected! Project Thread

Looking for:
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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 14:19

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doof

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Post #5

Have a serious think about the cost before you go down this route. Sods law dictates that as soon as you finish this build having spent ~3k minimum one will come up for sale for around 1.5k.

I built my 2.1 S16 engine and then sold it for around a grand. The pistons and machining alone cost over a grand.

Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 14:28

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russbez

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Post #6

i kept my ear out for years waiting on second hand high boost engine
was lucky though

pull restriction ring out charger, change of injectors, uprated fuel pump, ecu change etc job done Whistle

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 15:03

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welshpug!

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Post #7

Theres nothing tricky about assembling an engine, one thing i would do personally is go to 86.5mm so you have a fresh bore for the new rings.

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 15:48

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #8

I've already decided on 86.5 from recommendations from my engine builder.

As its a spare engine I have no time restrictions on doing the work.

If I'm honest half the reason is that I've built the rest of it so want to do the engine, when buying a and hand engine you don't know what its been through.

What about the PEC rods, anyone running them or is it saenz all the way? I was looking at wosner pistons to go with them.

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205 GTi Red - G939 RTU - Died!
306 GTi 6 Diablo - Being resurrected! Project Thread

Looking for:
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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 15:58

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russbez

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Post #9

iirc my engine is saenz rods and IASA forged pistons 86.5mm

Stan built this engine good few years now, i havent managed to blow it up yet

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 16:20

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Niall

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Post #10

As Welshpug said, its nothing to tricky. Biggest thing is to know what sort of wear is acceptable or not and being meticulously clean when building it ensuring that you use plenty of engine assembly paste when you do so. Its most delicate when you first start it for the first time so the last thing you want is a dry bearing.

Its much more rewarding building an engine your self and even if you get a company to build it for you and it fails, good luck getting them to stump up for a repair/replacement. There is so many variables that they will find a way to blame it on you and get out of it.

Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 16:23

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pugheaven

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Post #11

Just make sure you lable everything up and know what goes where, as all ready mentioned you need to be aware of wear limits on each component before you start to rebuild it, I was fighting against a time limit and for me it was cheaper to work a bit of overtime to pay someone else to do it for me (even though it wasnt a full rebuild)
If you have the tools, information and time to do it go for it as I would imagine it is satisfying to build it yourself just like its been satisfying building the dimma from scratch!
Do you even have any of the parts yet (I know you asked me over a year ago about buying one of the chargers I had but it never materialised) buying bit by bit is the way to go just make sure you have the funds and patients to finish it or it could become a big financial loss when you have to sell all the parts for half the price you paid

Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 16:41

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demondriverdan

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Post #12

pugheaven wrote:

buying bit by bit is the way to go just make sure you have the funds and patients to finish it or it could become a big financial loss when you have to sell all the parts for half the price you paid

Exactly what I'm doing with my engine build. Slowly getting new parts when they come up on good offers as there's no time pressure.

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 16:52

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #13

Yeah sorry about the charger falling through, the firm I was working for went bust owing me a few k so paying rent was a more pressing issue! I've not got anything yet but my tax rebate of 3.5k is due in the next few weeks.

I'm not going to blast it all in one go, just get bits as I go. Been speaking to mechanical repairs about a lynx kit he has, but they come up every month or two so should be something available once I'm ready if that one sells.

I'm gonna start tearing this engine down on the weekend. The main thing is the cam with wear isn't it? The rest of the beatings are to be replaced as are rods and pistons. Head I am just giving to an engine builder (maybe lynx) as I have rebuilt a head before and its easier to send it to be done.

I'm gonna clean and spray the block.

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 18:42

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #14

russbez wrote:

iirc my engine is saenz rods and IASA forged pistons 86.5mm

Stan built this engine good few years now, i havent managed to blow it up yet

I'm glad she's still running well mate!

As said, I built my high boost engine at home in the garage - very rewarding to get it running and everything, and now it's fitted in Russ's Rallye and going strong.
My super high boost engine I got Rich to build for the simple reason my circumstances had changed and I had no time to do the build so paid him instead. And that's still running extremely well after 4 years.

If you have the tools, knowledge, patience and space then I say go for it. Cool

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 20:37

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welshpug!

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Post #15

I'd avoid anything from PEC, if I was getting stuff myself it'd be carillo or farndon and a CP piston.

Some of the tales I've heard of Wossner piston spec being totally wrong have been rather scary.

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 21:18

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #16

Avoid PEC you say.

What dealers should I go to for Saenz rods and IASA then Stan?

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 21:31

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midlife

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Post #17

If you have a look on my project thread there is just about a full high boost engine build on there.
One word of warning though, make sure you read up on fitting the cam & crank seals, I fitted mine too deep, it was completely demoralising knowing how much of a strip down was needed to replace them, especially after I'd spent a s**t load of time getting the cam timing spot on.
Also, thread lock is your friend Thumbs up

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 21:44

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rich_w

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Post #18

welshpug! wrote:

I'd avoid anything from PEC, if I was getting stuff myself it'd be carillo or farndon and a CP piston.

Some of the tales I've heard of Wossner piston spec being totally wrong have been rather scary.

I really rate both PEC and Wossner components.

I always use Wossner pistons, and must have fitted 10 sets or so to various forms of higj-boost engine.

PEC rods are good, and excellent value for money.

They arent in the same league as Saenz, which are lighter, stronger and better finished, but you get what you pay for.

The quality of Saenz is second to none, and I would use them over any North American or European rod manufacturer. Until you have one in your hands and compare them to other rods, it's difficult to appreciate...

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Posted 16th Apr 2014 at 22:50

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #19

So that's settled it for me with wosner, just need to find a distributor of Saenz rods for the 306 now.

I'm going for it myself I think, I've got a skip coming today to empty my garage and clear an engine building heaven!

Clean with plenty of tools. And tea making facilities

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205 GTi Red - G939 RTU - Died!
306 GTi 6 Diablo - Being resurrected! Project Thread

Looking for:
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Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 18:42

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jamiek_uk2000

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Post #20

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Looking for:
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PR1.2 16"

Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 18:42

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rich_w

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Post #21

I can supply Saenz or PEC rods Smile

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Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 18:49

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armzsc6

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Post #22

If you've never done it before I wouldn't be building a bottom end to run 400bhp. Particularly if it's already gotta be bored out and honed just get them to assemble it. Not to mention do you know what's acceptable wear on a used crank? How much end float is acceptable, how much piston movement is acceptable, how hard it should be to turn over, if shells are to tight, if the oil pump is in good condition etc etc.

If it was a standard engine and you fancied a go then I'd say go for it but if your talking a few grands worth of shiny forged bits in there I'd be giving it to someone else who's done it a million times before.

I'd also be fitting uprated bearings and rod bolts etc at the same time which I'm sure rich can supply you.

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Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 19:08

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welshpug!

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Post #23

No differemce from assembling a std engine or a high boost.

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Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 20:25

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allanallen

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Post #24

Get the machining company to check the crank over when they do the Block, the rest is just nuts, bolts and a few simple measurements.

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Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 20:54

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Niall

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Post #25

allanallen wrote:

Get the machining company to check the crank over when they do the Block, the rest is just nuts, bolts and a few simple measurements.

This. Providing you keep it clean and are very careful as to wear etc, you will be fine Smile

Posted 17th Apr 2014 at 21:01

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