displaying posts 1 to 25 of 37

Pages (2): [1] 2

Author Subject: Welding experts advice needed
pugjim

Seasoned Pro

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 11 Mar 2007

Posts: 1,380

Status: Offline

Post #1
Got a car with a hairline crack about 1cm long in the sump. Question is could it be welded with the sump in situ? Dunno
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:30
rikky

Forum Pikey

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

Posts: 26,756

Status: Offline

Post #2
probably not very well as you'd want it all cleaned up properly first, including the inside at a guess

________________________________________

306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
306 red '6' 3d-printed badges (old part no 866503) | gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:32
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,604

Status: Offline

Post #3
would never try and do it in situ, is it alloy or steel?

the oil will act as a massive heatsink making a bas**rd to weld if its alloy, not so much for steel but it will contaminate the weld.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:38
pugjim

Seasoned Pro

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 11 Mar 2007

Posts: 1,380

Status: Offline

Post #4
problem is its on a lease car what is going back in about 6 months so the person who is leasing it doesnt want to spend loads fixing it. Was just wondering if there was a quick fix/bodge that would last 6 months Smile
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:42
dcc

Regular

Location: Wales

Registered: 24 Feb 2009

Posts: 476

Status: Offline

Post #5
Dont see any reason why not! clean up the surface your welding, its only a sump so as long as you weld it well on the clean side I think it will be fine. I certainly wouldnt have any issue with welding something that way.

________________________________________

205 GTI
Xsara HDI
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:43
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,604

Status: Offline

Post #6
and therein lies the problem Razz

trying to get oil out of a crack in a container that is full of oil Laugh my ass off


is it p**sing out? what is the sump made from?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:49
pugjim

Seasoned Pro

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 11 Mar 2007

Posts: 1,380

Status: Offline

Post #7
its just weeping out, very slightly, its an alloy sump. The company who are leasing the car have tig welding equipment.
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:52
ben306

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the hills, North West

Registered: 17 Jan 2006

Posts: 2,780

Status: Offline

Post #8
Chemical metal putty worked on my old company car for 9 months before I left the company. (I'd been playing real life Colin McCrea Rally so couldn't send it in to be fixed)

________________________________________

Rallye at Snetterton

Rallye at Mallory Park

Very wet Anglesey

Lap of Silverstone

Few laps at Blyton with shite brakes
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 15:53
roland rat

Yeeeah Rat fans!

Location: Swansea

Registered: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 22,242

Status: Offline

Post #9
dcc wrote:
Dont see any reason why not! clean up the surface your welding, its only a sump so as long as you weld it well on the clean side I think it will be fine. I certainly wouldnt have any issue with welding something that way.


your a pikey Yes
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:04
roland rat

Yeeeah Rat fans!

Location: Swansea

Registered: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 22,242

Status: Offline

Post #10
pugjim wrote:
problem is its on a lease car what is going back in about 6 months so the person who is leasing it doesnt want to spend loads fixing it. Was just wondering if there was a quick fix/bodge that would last 6 months Smile


A big Disney plaster should sort it out Thumbs up
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:05
rikky

Forum Pikey

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

Posts: 26,756

Status: Offline

Post #11
i'd personally just zip tie a huge sponge to the bottom to soak the oil up with a plastic tray underneath and just leave it till the day you give it back, that's not an MOT fail either cos we've done it before

^ not a lie

________________________________________

306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
306 red '6' 3d-printed badges (old part no 866503) | gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:08
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,604

Status: Offline

Post #12
its not going to cost them out but a tube of goop if they have tig equipment, and given they have tig equipment, surely they'd have someone who knows how to weld and the pitfalls of welding up something full of oil? LOL

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:33
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

Status: Offline

Post #13
Taking a sump off isn't a big job on most cars.

Otherwise drop the oil and weld it in situ.

Pretty sure with a crack in alloy you should drill a hole at both ends of the crack?

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:47
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,583

Status: Offline

Post #14
It'd need to be clean to tig, never going to happen with it on the car, you could try chemical metal and a patch but that's not exactly discrete Big grin

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 16:49
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,604

Status: Offline

Post #15
coskev wrote:
Pretty sure with a crack in alloy you should drill a hole at both ends of the crack?


any crack really, its the same reasoning behind stitch welding when "seam welding" a shell for race or rally cars, weld and inch leave and inch and so on, as a crank in a continuous weld will just follow the weld, a rack in a weld an inch long will only be an inch long.

shouldnt need to on a sump though, its not usually a stressed member so just vee-ing the crack out and filling it back up with weld would be sufficient.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:00
jimmyhackers

Seasoned Pro

Location: birmingham

Registered: 14 Jun 2011

Posts: 1,051

Status: Offline

Post #16
if you burn through with it in situ you could have a lovely fire on your hands.

________________________________________

the world is changed by men in sheds
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:11
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,641

Status: Offline

Post #17
Clean it up and sikafkex a square ally plate over the crack, if you do a neat job it won't look too obvious. If you want a reliable weld repair, it will need to come off, be degreased and then welded. You will not get a result trying to weld it in position, the oil in the crack will ruin the weld and cause you even more problems.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:54
buzzbrightyear

Seasoned Pro

Location: hiding all receipts for car

Registered: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 11,887

Status: Offline

Post #18
all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2.

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 17:56
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,604

Status: Offline

Post #19
buzzbrightyear wrote:
all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2.


guess you didn't read any of mine or Davey's posts then LOL

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:38
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,641

Status: Offline

Post #20
buzzbrightyear wrote:
all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2.


That won't work, buy a tig off me and try it for yourself to find out why Smile

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 18:54
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,641

Status: Offline

Post #21
When the bendy busses first came to our neck of the woods they smashed two £1,500 sumps a week for 2 months on the speed bumps around Millbrook. When they found out how much replacements were I got a few to repair. So I have a little experience in this area, vee-out the crack, get the casting vapour blasted, if you can find the ends of the cracks drill them out or run a tee weld across each end to try and stop them spreading further, I often heat the casting to 300 degrees for a few hours to get the oil impregnated in the ally to vapourise, and then crack on with the welding. 100% success with this method, people ask "can't you just put a blob of weld on it?" the answer is always no.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:00
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,762

Status: Offline

Post #22
daveyboy wrote:
When the bendy busses first came to our neck of the woods they smashed two £1,500 sumps a week for 2 months on the speed bumps around Millbrook. When they found out how much replacements were I got a few to repair. So I have a little experience in this area, vee-out the crack, get the casting vapour blasted, if you can find the ends of the cracks drill them out or run a tee weld across each end to try and stop them spreading further, I often heat the casting to 300 degrees for a few hours to get the oil impregnated in the ally to vapourise, and then crack on with the welding. 100% success with this method, people ask "can't you just put a blob of weld on it?" the answer is always no.


This is the best advice. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:05
dangti6

aka JKshooter

Location: Taunton, Somerset

Registered: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 10,291

Status: Offline

Post #23
How much is weeping?

Tesco value oil added when required FTW.

________________________________________

Bianca Rallye-S Flowers
205 GTi6 on ITB's
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:08
clen666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Co. Durham

Registered: 12 Feb 2009

Posts: 2,398

Status: Offline

Post #24
daveyboy wrote:
buzzbrightyear wrote:
all the suggestions and nobody's mentioned draining the oil first, get it hot first then leave it to drain for a day or 2.


That won't work, buy a tig off me and try it for yourself to find out why Smile


Jim, have you seen my post in the welders thread? Don't want to take this thread off topic too much, but I was asking about those r-tech welders

________________________________________

Team 'unintentional rat look'
Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 19:59
pugjim

Seasoned Pro

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 11 Mar 2007

Posts: 1,380

Status: Offline

Post #25
Heres a picture of the crack, you can just see the drip. Since the engine has cooled its not leaked a drop.

Posted 29th Jul 2013 at 20:59

Pages (2): [1] 2

Greenlight Insurance
All times are GMT. The time is now 03:48

The Peugeot GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club Ltd - Registered in England & Wales - Reg No: 07410694 - ©2020 all rights reserved.

Please Note : The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club Ltd or any individuals involved.
No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy and legal information