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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 41
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| Author | Subject: SC Service |
 rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro  Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #1
One for the SC boys this really but dont let me stop anyone from adding thier thoughts  Im going to be doing a service on the SC Rallye soon and was wondering the addtional bits that you guys check/change?  Thanks ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
 Posted 26th Apr 2010 at 17:11
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro  Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #2
Nothing out of the ordinary mate  The only thing to consider over and above what you would normally check is the S/C traction fluid and filter. This needs changing every 24 months or 24,000 K/M [note, not miles!] - whichever comes first. Also, use the best oil you can afford, in a slightly higher viscosity than standard. Something like a 20W50 is what I would go for ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 27th Apr 2010 at 02:31
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #3
Thanks Rich  Will look to do it next month hopefully in the sun  ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
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Posted 27th Apr 2010 at 16:28
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro  Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #4
This could be a silly question, but why use a higher viscosity oil? As i understand the low boost chargers use standard internals and only rev a little bit higher so i just dont get why you cant use a decent 10/40 semi synthetic oil. Especially as the charger itself has its own independant oil feed dont it? Could it not cause circulation issues in the engine too as its oil ways were manufactured for the thinner oils. It must a bit like blocked arteries in the human body. Im not picking holes or anything i just interested as to why the differences. ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 03:07
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fletch
Track Head  Location: The nearest Shell garage Registered: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 12,273 Status: Offline |
Post #5
Probably so the oil doesn't thin too much at higher temperatures. |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 04:31
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro  Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #6
I'm also interested why you recommend a 20w oil rich? Surely all your achieving is less cold start protection? I personally use 10w50 fully synth in my charged mi. Same As standard oil when cold but a little thicker when hot to stand a bit more heat. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 05:42
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kit
Seasoned Pro  Location: Location: Location: Registered: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,394 Status: Offline |
Post #7
fletch wrote: Probably so the oil doesn't thin too much at higher temperatures. Fletch is probably right. It will have a higher temperature viscosity protection compared to lower grade oils. ________________________________________ Racing driver, fighter pilot, astronaut, compulsive liar. |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 05:48
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #8
fletch wrote: Maybe, but looking lee's and stan's charged 6's they dont actually run any hotter do they? Especially with the oil coolers.Probably so the oil doesn't thin too much at higher temperatures. ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 11:09
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farmer
Seasoned Pro  Location: Southend On Sea Registered: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Status: Offline |
Post #9
Its about film strength.Thats why Rich recommmends Royal Purple as its pretty much the best in that field. I am running Millers CFS 10W60 Competition Full Synthetic and have had no issues so far, but the only way you will find out if you have an issue is when its too late! Rich only runs and recommends RP as he had to have his bottom end rebuilt after it shat itself on the rollers first time round iirc, so he now wont chance anything less, and seeing as this is such a reliable conversion, he recommends what he knows runs without problems. If you choose to run something other then that, its up to you. Your risk at the end of the day. I know a few others run Silkolene 10w60 FS and so far have been ok. To my embaressment, I did initially run Total quartz 9000 after the conversion was first complete, and done a 'Ring trip on that too  I soon changed it for the Millers when I got back though. aaron6 wrote: fletch wrote: Maybe, but looking lee's and stan's charged 6's they dont actually run any hotter do they? Especially with the oil coolers.Probably so the oil doesn't thin too much at higher temperatures. There is a contradiction in terms if ever I heard one  Of course they dont run hotter with an oil cooler, otherwise the bloody thing isn't doing its job! ________________________________________ Long live the Sigma 6 Team Phase 1 supercharged XBL ID: farmer uk1 |
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Posted 30th Apr 2010 at 22:27
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #10
farmer wrote: Indeed! Thats the whole point! As they dont run any hotter, whats the point in using the 20/50. The engine dont need it as far as i can see. High boost ones maybe but they are whole different animal. Its about film strength. Thats why Rich recommmends Royal Purple as its pretty much the best in that field. I am running Millers CFS 10W60 Competition Full Synthetic and have had no issues so far, but the only way you will find out if you have an issue is when its too late! Rich only runs and recommends RP as he had to have his bottom end rebuilt after it shat itself on the rollers first time round iirc, so he now wont chance anything less, and seeing as this is such a reliable conversion, he recommends what he knows runs without problems. If you choose to run something other then that, its up to you. Your risk at the end of the day. I know a few others run Silkolene 10w60 FS and so far have been ok. To my embaressment, I did initially run Total quartz 9000 after the conversion was first complete, and done a 'Ring trip on that too I soon changed it for the Millers when I got back though. aaron6 wrote: fletch wrote: Maybe, but looking lee's and stan's charged 6's they dont actually run any hotter do they? Especially with the oil coolers.Probably so the oil doesn't thin too much at higher temperatures. There is a contradiction in terms if ever I heard one Of course they dont run hotter with an oil cooler, otherwise the bloody thing isn't doing its job! ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 01:24
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allesclar
Seasoned Pro  Location: Sheffield Registered: 17 May 2009 Posts: 4,254 Status: Offline |
Post #11
they dont run any hotter? they sure bloody do lol.the whole point of the low boost is that you get the power from aboove 4.5k revs, mostly around 7k revs for mine. The whole idea is that you will spend more time in the extreme range end of the revs than a normal 6', hence it will create more heat. Of course they create more heat, if they didnt, then you would need to uprate the parts for high boost to put up with the extra heat and pressure created. Also, 100 extra horses will generate extra heat. Another point too, as oil looses viscosity, it pressure drops, a higher grade oil will transfer heat more effciently than a lower grade one. ________________________________________ Team allesclar ® |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 01:30
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #12
allesclar wrote: Im still not convinced. The oil temps in the charged 6's iv seen are similar if not lower than standard ones. See, what would be wrong with using the 5/40 fully synthetic by millers that i put in my scooby? That puts up a fair chunk of boost and revs without causing any problems. I apologise if im offending anyone but i just dont see the point. And if it warm running temps your saying it needs it, what about the 10/60 that was mentioned earlier?they dont run any hotter? they sure bloody do lol. the whole point of the low boost is that you get the power from aboove 4.5k revs, mostly around 7k revs for mine. The whole idea is that you will spend more time in the extreme range end of the revs than a normal 6', hence it will create more heat. Of course they create more heat, if they didnt, then you would need to uprate the parts for high boost to put up with the extra heat and pressure created. Also, 100 extra horses will generate extra heat. Another point too, as oil looses viscosity, it pressure drops, a higher grade oil will transfer heat more effciently than a lower grade one. ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 02:04
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #13
I'm all for using an oil with a higher viscosity when hot (?w50 or 60) I was just confused as to why you'd use a 20w? As far as i'm aware that means its thicker when cold and the only thing you are achieving is less engine protection on start up? ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 02:08
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #14
The only reason i'm using a 20W50 is because Royal Purple Racing [our preferred oil] don't do a 10W50.I would use a 10W50 if they did one. The most important thing to me is the last number, the reason for me choosing this oil is the superior film strenghth when hot. I've used it on engines running upto 540 BHP with no problem!  ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 04:33
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #15
allanallen wrote: I'm all for using an oil with a higher viscosity when hot (?w50 or 60) I was just confused as to why you'd use a 20w? As far as i'm aware that means its thicker when cold and the only thing you are achieving is less engine protection on start up? Some of the EP additives in Royal Purple and some of the Millers oils (Look at the EP one they do for rotaries and Mini engines) prevents them getting better than a 20w when cold, it's a bit of a trade off but worth it when the bottom end is loaded as it is. ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 04:42
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allesclar
Seasoned Pro Location: Sheffield Registered: 17 May 2009 Posts: 4,254 Status: Offline |
Post #16
aaron6 wrote: allesclar wrote: Im still not convinced. The oil temps in the charged 6's iv seen are similar if not lower than standard ones. See, what would be wrong with using the 5/40 fully synthetic by millers that i put in my scooby? That puts up a fair chunk of boost and revs without causing any problems. I apologise if im offending anyone but i just dont see the point. And if it warm running temps your saying it needs it, what about the 10/60 that was mentioned earlier?they dont run any hotter? they sure bloody do lol. the whole point of the low boost is that you get the power from aboove 4.5k revs, mostly around 7k revs for mine. The whole idea is that you will spend more time in the extreme range end of the revs than a normal 6', hence it will create more heat. Of course they create more heat, if they didnt, then you would need to uprate the parts for high boost to put up with the extra heat and pressure created. Also, 100 extra horses will generate extra heat. Another point too, as oil looses viscosity, it pressure drops, a higher grade oil will transfer heat more effciently than a lower grade one. it does depend on how they were driving, what oil they were using but also the quality of the oil is how long it will last. All i will say though is i have seen convertions with blown internals because a cheap oil was used. why not use a simple 10w50 oil from B&Q i found the other day? It was only £15, strictly on the back it said NOT for supercharged/turbocharged engines, thinking why on earth? went home, looked at the oil and thermodynamic attributes of the oil, was less than most of the 0w40 oil i have seen. At the end of the day, yes PR is expensive, but having put alot of money and time (rich) into the car. Its a chance im not going to take personally, not after hearing of people who have used lower quality oil for it to go pop. ________________________________________ Team allesclar ® |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 14:08
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #17
allesclar wrote: Im not saying use a cheap oil. Millers stuff aint cheap. Its just good oil. Wouldnt use any less in the scooby. And as rich w said, if they made a 10/50,he'd use it so it would be fine to use other oils safely. But not the b&q stuff you mentioned. aaron6 wrote: allesclar wrote: Im still not convinced. The oil temps in the charged 6's iv seen are similar if not lower than standard ones. See, what would be wrong with using the 5/40 fully synthetic by millers that i put in my scooby? That puts up a fair chunk of boost and revs without causing any problems. I apologise if im offending anyone but i just dont see the point. And if it warm running temps your saying it needs it, what about the 10/60 that was mentioned earlier?they dont run any hotter? they sure bloody do lol. the whole point of the low boost is that you get the power from aboove 4.5k revs, mostly around 7k revs for mine. The whole idea is that you will spend more time in the extreme range end of the revs than a normal 6', hence it will create more heat. Of course they create more heat, if they didnt, then you would need to uprate the parts for high boost to put up with the extra heat and pressure created. Also, 100 extra horses will generate extra heat. Another point too, as oil looses viscosity, it pressure drops, a higher grade oil will transfer heat more effciently than a lower grade one. it does depend on how they were driving, what oil they were using but also the quality of the oil is how long it will last. All i will say though is i have seen convertions with blown internals because a cheap oil was used. why not use a simple 10w50 oil from B&Q i found the other day? It was only £15, strictly on the back it said NOT for supercharged/turbocharged engines, thinking why on earth? went home, looked at the oil and thermodynamic attributes of the oil, was less than most of the 0w40 oil i have seen. At the end of the day, yes PR is expensive, but having put alot of money and time (rich) into the car. Its a chance im not going to take personally, not after hearing of people who have used lower quality oil for it to go pop.  ↲________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 1st May 2010 at 14:41
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mattyrallye
Seasoned Pro  Location: gillingham Registered: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 1,202 Status: Offline |
Post #18
quote: quote: At the end of the day, yes PR is expensive, but having put alot of money and time (rich) into the car. Its a chance im not going to take personally, not after hearing of people who have used lower quality oil for it to go pop. Sorry but why has everyone got this impression that PR is so expensive??? I think the debate sparks up because mainly people cant justify the price of the oil, compared to other oils on the market. I do agree with aaron that the oil doesnt really run hotter, and the increase in rpm of 250 isnt worth worrying about when we are talking in terms of thousands of rpm. I do think the temperature would fluctuate more than on a standard engine though. However I know of two people now who have sorced 6 Litres of RP for around £60, just a little food for thought. ________________________________________ Previous china gti6 and Rallye owner.Now a proud Astor Gti 6 owner. Missing he BMW already... |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 15:00
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kit
Seasoned Pro Location: Location: Location: Registered: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,394 Status: Offline |
Post #19
TBH if you are going to put time, effort, money, blood, sweat, tears, etc into a s/c conversion, £60 everytime you need an oil change is hardly breaking the bank, and if the man who develops the chargers recommends you use that oil, why would you want to question his expertise?________________________________________ Racing driver, fighter pilot, astronaut, compulsive liar. |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 15:38
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #20
I have been using Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 for the last year with no issues. If i were to go high boost i would step up to the RP that Rich uses though ________________________________________ Just Drive It |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 15:42
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #21
kit wrote: I was not questioning his expertise, i was meerly enquiring why low boost 6's which run on standard internals require such a radical change in the oil used. As for the £60 for the royal purple, i seem to remember seeing or hearing somewhere that most people who use it pay a lot more for it. But yes, £60 is not too bad when the oil i use is just over £40 and therefor is an acceptable increase in price if its as good as everyone seems to say it is. TBH if you are going to put time, effort, money, blood, sweat, tears, etc into a s/c conversion, £60 everytime you need an oil change is hardly breaking the bank, and if the man who develops the chargers recommends you use that oil, why would you want to question his expertise? ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 18:23
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rallyestyle
Seasoned Pro Location: London Registered: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 14,990 Status: Offline |
Post #22
Where can RP be found for £60?________________________________________ Just Drive It |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 18:38
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smegal
Seasoned Pro  Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #23
Tom, Are you buying any more traction fluid?________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 18:46
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iplay
Seasoned Pro  Location: Number Wang Registered: 18 May 2006 Posts: 3,268 Status: Offline |
Post #24
Don't overlook lubricating brake slider pins. You don't have the same issues with AP as standard calipers (which need regular maintenance) but sticky brakes will put more stress on the engine. |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 19:12
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mattyrallye
Seasoned Pro Location: gillingham Registered: 02 Nov 2007 Posts: 1,202 Status: Offline |
Post #25
I was just searching the net. I think these guys are based in reading.http://www.oil-shop-uk.co.uk/ ________________________________________ Previous china gti6 and Rallye owner.Now a proud Astor Gti 6 owner. Missing he BMW already... |
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Posted 6th May 2010 at 19:35
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