Project bottom end... - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Project bottom end...

availablebmx

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Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex

Registered: 24 Oct 2007

Posts: 355

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Post #1

Annialated my bottom end yesterday at snetterton...
Was running well hot for a while, which obviously thinned the oil, and the track is predominally right hand turns... Which I'm guessing had starved the bearing of oil causing it to break!

Now my options are:
1. Fix my existing engine, obviusly depending on damage but as a guess I would have thought this was cheapest!
2. Buy 2nd hand bottom end and put my longman head back on it... Gunna cost just under a grand with fitting I would have thought!
3. No holds barred... I was thinking of going for more power somewhere down the road, maybe a throttle bodies and nos combo! So maybe go for a longman forged high comp bottom end to match my head...

How much power can you put through a standard bottom end, as I'm hoping for around 250?

Any thoughts would be great..?

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Thomas - Black 6 rollin' on black 15's...
197bhp - 155.8bhp/135.4ft-lb atw

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:06

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jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

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Post #2

The low boost charged boys are on standard bottom ends @~250 so standard should do what you want it to! However should you want to go furthur than that... you'll need to uprate things i would of thought! Wink

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:11

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #3

I'm doing exactly the same thing at the moment Smile

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:32

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pugheaven

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Location: Fareham

Registered: 17 Dec 2006

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Post #4

Im doing a similar build atm, im using longmans forged rods and peugeot sport forged pistons, ill be runnin 285 cams and bodies and hopin for 230bhp. Will find it hard and a lot of money to get more than 240hp N/A.

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:35

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availablebmx

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Location: Leigh-on-Sea, Essex

Registered: 24 Oct 2007

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Post #5

pugheaven how comes your forging you engine if you hoping for around 230 then..? Isn't that overkill..?

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Thomas - Black 6 rollin' on black 15's...
197bhp - 155.8bhp/135.4ft-lb atw

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:51

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pugheaven

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Post #6

it was either forged or pocket some standard pistons. Higher compresson, faster rev due to weight. Think jim has gone forged aswell.

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 19:59

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phillipm

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Post #7

Higher rev. limit if you're doing some top end work too = more power.

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 20:03

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pugheaven

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Post #8

using uprated mains and big ends and raising rev limiter to 8k maybe.

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 20:10

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phillipm

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Post #9

And some decent oil Whistle

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 20:20

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pugheaven

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Post #10

oh yes, dont know what oil to go for atm tho.

Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 20:31

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jcphat

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Post #11

Worth doing a full job with uprated rods etc if you are going to make lots of n/a power as you will need to run higher revs. The stress on rods rises by a greater proportion than the increase in revs so that while standard bottome ends are well able to support @250 brake with forced induction I am not sure if any of them approach 8000 rpm as a very pokey N/A would likely need to.

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 20:35

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #12

jcphat wrote:

Aiming for an 8.75k rev limit on mine, forged pistons and steel rods are a neccesity.

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 23:06

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pete_rallye

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Post #13

8750 on a standard crank would need a very well balanced bottom end, or a proper steel crank. Any vibration will break the crank pretty quick. Get the crank flywheel and clutch all balanced as one unit, and then make sure all the rods and pistons are identically matched.

My engine made 270bhp@8250rpm though so you may not need those revs if you choose your other mods carefully.

Theres a good chance I'm going to be selling my steel crank+pugsport rods soon if anyones interested, then you can have 10k+ rpm to play with.

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Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 23:14

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jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

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Post #14

Hmmm interesting pete....... Hmm

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 23:21

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cjm_harris

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Post #15

jeffers wrote:

Hmmm interesting pete....... Hmm

Indeed

Does anyone want to buy a kidney?

More like a kidney, a lung, a leg and an arm Razz

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 23:26

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welshpug!

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Post #16

get the sump off and inspect the crank bearings and conrods before you go any further Thumbs up

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Posted 17th Nov 2009 at 23:35

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crossflow

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Post #17

8,000rpm is your limit on the standard crank, I have got 240 out of zetec's and peugeot at 7,700 but they did have my own design of cams in them

Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 00:21

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #18

crossflow wrote:

8,000rpm is your limit on the standard crank, I have got 240 out of zetec's and peugeot at 7,700 but they did have my own design of cams in them

Hearing lots of differing opinions on the maximum limit for the standard crank, bearing in mindit will be on new bearings with significantly lighter rods and pistons bolted onto it we will see. Who has actually had a crank failiure and at what RPM? I would be interested to know as I have'nt heard of any failiures, plenty of valve and bearing related issues, but nothing directly attributed to crank failiure. Also I placed my order for the cams today, I'll post up the exact specs later as they are one offs but the inlet is 296 degree and something like 12.5mm lift.

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Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 08:06

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #19

pete_rallye wrote:

The crank pulley, crank, fly-wheel, clutch and clutch cover plate will all be sent away along with the pistons and rods for dynamic balancing as I am very keen for this lump to stay together. Obviously I don't intend sustained periods at that sort of RPM but it would be nice to know it can take it if I miss a shift or loose concentration once in a while.

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Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 08:20

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pete_rallye

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Post #20

I've heard of plenty of people revving them to 8500rpm, one was in a rally car with short gearing that meant the car used to sit on the limiter at 8500rpm for some time on long straights. That also had standard rods and pistons actually, and it was an mi16, not gti-6 but must be similar.

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Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring

Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 13:18

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pugheaven

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Post #21

pete let me know when you sell the crank. Interested but depends on price.

Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 13:22

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #22

pete_rallye wrote:

That would sound about right as I was told that I should be fine up to 8.75K as long as I'm not using it too often. Your crank does'nt run on standard big end sizes does it?

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Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 14:52

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pete_rallye

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Post #23

The crank has 45mm big ends, which is why I'll be selling the rods and crank together, with a brand new set of bearings. The rods also have a 22mm small end I think, as opposed to the standard rods 20mm.

I'll be asking

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Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring

Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 17:02

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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

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Post #24

pete_rallye wrote:

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Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 17:19

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gtisid

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Post #25

woul;d a decent sump baffle help with your diagnosis on your blown up engine?

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Posted 18th Nov 2009 at 18:03

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