displaying posts 1 to 15 of 15

Author Subject: Poor starting - won't catch
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

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Post #1
I've just had my injectors off for cleaning (nothing wrong with the running of the car before, but I consider it a servicing item) and after re-installing them, the car takes many more turns before it catches.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Nothing else was disturbed or altered during this process apart from the fuel rail. The injectors were ultrasonically cleaned and re-installed with 8 new seals. I've owned the car for over 4 years and it's always started immediately or within about 3 turns.

So; consistantly fine before and now consistantly ~10 turns before it catches.

It's worse when the car's been sat for hours/days. Doesn't really do it after a few mins.

Is the fuel/fuel pressure being slowly lost from the rail?
Is there any kind of non-return valve as part of the fuel rail or it's associated pipework?
(Does the fuel pressure regulator do this?)
Could any of the new seals be letting air past? Would this even cause the symptoms?
What's the current economic situation in eastern Bangladesh?
Can it be anything to do with the actual cleaning of the injector units themselves?

Cheers chaps.
Posted 16th Nov 2011 at 22:58
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #2
tompaltridge wrote:

Is the fuel/fuel pressure being slowly lost from the rail?


only you can answer that, pressure test it.

tompaltridge wrote:
Is there any kind of non-return valve as part of the fuel rail or it's associated pipework?


yes in the fuel pump.

tompaltridge wrote:
(Does the fuel pressure regulator do this?)
kind of, pump builds pressure to this and when turned off the non-return valve hold the pressure in the rail.

tompaltridge wrote:
Could any of the new seals be letting air past? Would this even cause the symptoms?


this would mean a leak of fuel into the intake or externally from the fuel rail, so doubt it.

tompaltridge wrote:
What's the current economic situation in eastern Bangladesh?


scoobydoo!

tompaltridge wrote:
Can it be anything to do with the actual cleaning of the injector units themselves?


unlikely.

tompaltridge wrote:
Cheers chaps.


NP Thumbs up


have you done an ecu re-set and checked for any error codes?

does it improve if you let the pump prime or turn the ignition on+off a few times before cranking?

could be the cam sensor.

________________________________________

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Posted 16th Nov 2011 at 23:10
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #3
welshpug! wrote:
tompaltridge wrote:

Is the fuel/fuel pressure being slowly lost from the rail?


only you can answer that, pressure test it.

tompaltridge wrote:
Is there any kind of non-return valve as part of the fuel rail or it's associated pipework?


yes in the fuel pump.

tompaltridge wrote:
(Does the fuel pressure regulator do this?)
kind of, pump builds pressure to this and when turned off the non-return valve hold the pressure in the rail.

tompaltridge wrote:
Could any of the new seals be letting air past? Would this even cause the symptoms?


this would mean a leak of fuel into the intake or externally from the fuel rail, so doubt it.

tompaltridge wrote:
What's the current economic situation in eastern Bangladesh?


scoobydoo!

tompaltridge wrote:
Can it be anything to do with the actual cleaning of the injector units themselves?


unlikely.

tompaltridge wrote:
Cheers chaps.


NP Thumbs up


have you done an ecu re-set and checked for any error codes?

does it improve if you let the pump prime or turn the ignition on+off a few times before cranking?

could be the cam sensor.


Don't have the equipment to test pressure lost in the rail. My equipment is my ears and increasing irritation at the embarrasing number of turns from my once free-starting engine. Thumbs down

Fuel pump itself unlikey to be shagged by sheer coincidence, we'll conclude.

No fuel leaks from the rail, engine off or on.
If fuel leaked into the manifold when stood, robbing the rail of pressure, would it cause the starting symptoms?
ECU was reset by disconnecting battery for about 1 hour. Don't have the kit for code reading.
I always let the pump fully prime before starting and it still does it, however I haven't tried repeatedly priming it. Good call.
Hate coincidences so hoping it's not the cam sensor.
Posted 16th Nov 2011 at 23:24
bigbadbowen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 13,753

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Post #4
Spark plugs ok ?

Posted 16th Nov 2011 at 23:36
monkeyman

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Location: Sunny St Albans

Registered: 01 Oct 2008

Posts: 1,955

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Post #5
Where did you have them cleaned?

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Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 00:32
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #6
Spark plugs were replaced just a week or two ago - standard NGK twin electrode. Was starting and running fine for the preceeding week.
Would these symptoms be caused if they weren't tight enough?

Had the injectors cleaned by a retired engineer on the Lolvo fourm. He's being doing this sucessfully for forum members since 2007 in a 39 page long thread. I'm hoping it's not something to do with the units themselves, but something I've disturbed whilst refitting them.
Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 07:39
monkeyman

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Location: Sunny St Albans

Registered: 01 Oct 2008

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Post #7
Clear some space in your inbox pls tom

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Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 09:06
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #8
Cleared. Thumbs up

Had no idea it was full. Shows much many PM's I receive. LOL

Edit: Meirion, when you say (regarding the fuel pressure regulator)
welshpug! wrote:
kind of, pump builds pressure to this and when turned off the non-return valve hold the pressure in the rail.
do you mean that there's a second non-return value in/part of the pressure regulator? Or are you referring to the non-return value in the fuel pump holding the pressure in the rail when the engine's off?

Any/all: how can I test whether fuel is at the rail and under some pressure when the car's been stood? Holding the rail+injectors as a unit and getting someone to crank the engine whilst I peer into the injector nozzles doesn't smack of a good plan.
Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 17:04
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #9
pull the feed pipe off the rail, if fuel squirts out its under pressure!

the only non return valve is in the pump, FPR holds pressure back against this, or should do.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 17:42
matt evans

Seasoned Pro

Location: Stourbridge

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 2,290

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Post #10
Had similar when i had a set of injectors cleaned ultrasonically on mine. Would start fine when hot, leave it a day, and it would take ages to fire properly. Turns out that two of the injectors were now weeping when the engine was off. Thus depressurising the system.

Take the fuel rail and injectors off when the engines stone cold and i bet you find a wet injector in there.

________________________________________

1999 Astor Grey GTi-6 OEM+ (now gone...)
2004 Aegean Blue 206 GTi 180 (also gone...)
2006 Skoda Fabia vRS in Sprint Yellow

honestly3k wrote:
Do you wrestle for a living matt? You sound like a monster LOL


owain wrote:
Nothing involving a 306 can be considered worthwhile.

Posted 17th Nov 2011 at 23:27
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #11
matt evans wrote:
Had similar when i had a set of injectors cleaned ultrasonically on mine. Would start fine when hot, leave it a day, and it would take ages to fire properly. Turns out that two of the injectors were now weeping when the engine was off. Thus depressurising the system.

Take the fuel rail and injectors off when the engines stone cold and i bet you find a wet injector in there.


This sounds ominous. Did what did you do to cure it then? Were the injectors damaged beyond repair?
Posted 18th Nov 2011 at 07:02
matt evans

Seasoned Pro

Location: Stourbridge

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 2,290

Status: Offline

Post #12
tompaltridge wrote:
matt evans wrote:
Had similar when i had a set of injectors cleaned ultrasonically on mine. Would start fine when hot, leave it a day, and it would take ages to fire properly. Turns out that two of the injectors were now weeping when the engine was off. Thus depressurising the system.

Take the fuel rail and injectors off when the engines stone cold and i bet you find a wet injector in there.


This sounds ominous. Did what did you do to cure it then? Were the injectors damaged beyond repair?


In fairness it was a spare unknown/unused set i had cleaned. Yes the two were fooked, so refitted my original good set.

________________________________________

1999 Astor Grey GTi-6 OEM+ (now gone...)
2004 Aegean Blue 206 GTi 180 (also gone...)
2006 Skoda Fabia vRS in Sprint Yellow

honestly3k wrote:
Do you wrestle for a living matt? You sound like a monster LOL


owain wrote:
Nothing involving a 306 can be considered worthwhile.

Posted 18th Nov 2011 at 08:43
adam b

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Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

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Post #13
Best speak to Jimathon and find out what he has to say then Wink

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Posted 18th Nov 2011 at 11:12
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #14
adam b wrote:
Best speak to Jimathon and find out what he has to say then Wink


Waaay ahead of you, once I confirm whether or not the injectors are the culprit!
Really nice guy though so hoping all would go well with his money back guarantee/some other resolution...
Posted 18th Nov 2011 at 17:35
heliosphan

Senior User

Location: UK

Registered: 14 Sep 2007

Posts: 950

Status: Offline

Post #15
Update for future search information:

Fitted a second hand fuel pump a few days ago to see if this (or rather the non return valve within) was the problem and hey presto, the car starts within 3 turns like it used to. Cheers Jim. Thumbs up

Now, what kind of tit would say something like:
tompaltridge wrote:
Fuel pump itself unlikey to be shagged by sheer coincidence, we'll conclude.
without knowing for sure that it isn't the pump? What's that phrase about assumptions again? Roll eyes

Only tried it a few times so far, so not out of the woods yet, but it'll get loads of miles over the next week for Christmas so that'll be a good test.
Posted 20th Dec 2011 at 22:09

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