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Author Subject: Standard OEM Suspension
dented_vts

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Post #26
welshpug! wrote:
I would suggest that the dampers are unsuitable, it wont be the springs.

Never experienced KYB, found koni set on mid settings to work very well with standard springs, never tried eibachs on them.

Bilstein and Eibach seem to work well on the 306.


The spings on mine, i think, are original. However, i think the dampers at 75k are getting tired hence the terrible ride.

The KYB look a great price on Buypartsby. I seem to recall the Bilstein B6's i purchased were much cheaper trade than the retail prices on the web-site.
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 20:51
adam b

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Post #27
If it helps at all dented_vts, welshpug runs a ZX 16v converted to a XU10 J4RS engine. Therefore pretty much the same suspension as your Xsara.

I'd have thought the springs feel too stiff because the damping is not good enough at the moment. I've had KYB inverted STi v5 struts before on a legacy turbo. They weren't bad at all.

In 306 terms i've had the experience of standard, koni yellows + eibach, Bilstein B8 + eibach and AST sportline 1 coilovers. They can all be good to be honest, but the konis need to be on at least medium setting.

Was very impressed by the B8 + eibach combo in CUJs rallye, similar feel to the ASTs on my car. I would seriously consider using your standard springs on a set of B8 gti6 dampers and a thicker rear ARB. Will be a well damped but compliant ride with brilliant turn-in.

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:02
adam b

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Post #28
The other thing you should do is get some lightweight 15" but 7" wide wheels. You can potentially knock at least 6kg per corner off the current setup using a light tyre like a Pilot Exalto 2.

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:04
dented_vts

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Post #29
adam b wrote:
The other thing you should do is get some lightweight 15" but 7" wide wheels. You can potentially knock at least 6kg per corner off the current setup using a light tyre like a Pilot Exalto 2.


Thanks for the opinions- and a good point re the tires. But i only picked up the car for a couple of hundred and can't justify significant expense on it.

How much are the b8 at trade? i'm presume the sports bilstein listed on Eurocrapparts web-site are just the b6 variant?
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:13
welshpug!

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Post #30
I believe they do B8 as well.

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:19
dented_vts

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Post #31
adam b wrote:
The other thing you should do is get some lightweight 15" but 7" wide wheels. You can potentially knock at least 6kg per corner off the current setup using a light tyre like a Pilot Exalto 2.


I'm just running standard wheels with T1r proxes- car had a near new set on the back at purchase so i just bought a pair for the front(about 110). looked at conti sport contact 2 which are meant to be good in that size.

Handling in mine is quite good in the dry at medium speeds, but push on in the wet on a bumpy corner and it slides, alarmingly and the ride is shocking.

I'm still interested in the KYB ultra SR but they are more than twice the price of the Excel G version.
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:20
dented_vts

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Post #32
welshpug! wrote:
I believe they do B8 as well.


any idea on the price at trade? do i really need shortened ones with standard springs?
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:21
adam b

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Post #33
If you use the GTi6 front dampers as a replacement then ideally yes as your springs are 30mm shorter as standard iirc.

Fair enough on the tyres - i've been thinking about the contisports as well, but they are the same price as the PE2 and I know what they are like!

When I said 6+kg thats with a lightweight wheel and tyre, not just the tyre Smile

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:35
dented_vts

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Post #34
adam b wrote:
If you use the GTi6 front dampers as a replacement then ideally yes as your springs are 30mm shorter as standard iirc.

Fair enough on the tyres - i've been thinking about the contisports as well, but they are the same price as the PE2 and I know what they are like!

When I said 6+kg thats with a lightweight wheel and tyre, not just the tyre Smile


yeah get most of the weight difference is the wheels.

Its conti premium contact 2 or Bridgestone Turanza ER300 that are good in that size. I'm not quite sure how much worse the Proxes are till my suspension is fixed.
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:40
adam b

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Post #35
Well... not necessarily. PE2s are really really light. You pay for that in sidewall flex, but you can really feel the difference against an F1 for example.

My 15s with 195/50s come in at 11kg (I think it was - might have been 10.6...) per wheel/tyre with the wheels weighing 5.5 each.

The handling difference is very noticeable, sure you get a lot more grip with the wider wheels, but the change of direction is so much more immediate.

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 21:50
dented_vts

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Post #36
adam b wrote:
Well... not necessarily. PE2s are really really light. You pay for that in sidewall flex, but you can really feel the difference against an F1 for example.

My 15s with 195/50s come in at 11kg (I think it was - might have been 10.6...) per wheel/tyre with the wheels weighing 5.5 each.

The handling difference is very noticeable, sure you get a lot more grip with the wider wheels, but the change of direction is so much more immediate.


why would you get more grip with wider wheels? the size of the contact patch is dictated largely by the weight the tire is bearing divided by the tire pressure. Wider wheels equals a different shape contact patch not necessarily a bigger one. Wider wheels make the contact patch shorter but wider hence you get more lateral force with a given steering input but you get less feedback. Also the maximum cornering force is not usually higher.

Why have you got 50 profile no the correct 55 profile? If you change the rolling radius that will upset everything else.
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 22:06
welshpug!

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Post #37
I think its because the wider rim pulls the sidewalls out, meaning they wont flop about as much.

Similar to the argument that a 185 feels tighter on a 205 than a 195 wide tyre.

as to why he's on 55's, he's a cheapshkate like nearly everyone else in the 306/205 world LOL

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Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 22:18
dented_vts

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Post #38
welshpug! wrote:
I think its because the wider rim pulls the sidewalls out, meaning they wont flop about as much.

Similar to the argument that a 185 feels tighter on a 205 than a 195 wide tyre.

as to why he's on 55's, he's a cheapshkate like nearly everyone else in the 306/205 world LOL


ah that size is cheaper! I get it now.
Posted 8th Mar 2010 at 22:19
adam b

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Post #39
Loads, loads cheaper and the rate I go through tyres I need them cheap! Sure the speedo is out but as far as I'm concerned everything else is fine so quite happy to continue using them.

If I was that fussed about keeping it as god/higher power intended then i'd really need to sell it now and buy another one. I'm not entirely sure i've improved it, but its got shed loads more mechanical grip and the handling is pretty much the same (or was before the new engine) so can't be too bad.

I've tried my best to keep the brilliant standard ride quality and handling!

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Posted 9th Mar 2010 at 00:55
dented_vts

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Post #40
I think its just the front dampers that will be worn on my car at a genuine 75k- do you lot think it will be ok to just change these with OEM Citroen ones and leave the rear alone?
Posted 9th Mar 2010 at 21:52
adam b

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Post #41
No change all of them - the rears do a huge amount for the balance of the car even if you think they aren't. The difference was massive when I changed mine.

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Posted 10th Mar 2010 at 00:30
dented_vts

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Post #42
adam b wrote:
No change all of them - the rears do a huge amount for the balance of the car even if you think they aren't. The difference was massive when I changed mine.


Did you change yours at a similar mileage?
Posted 10th Mar 2010 at 00:37
306matt

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Post #43
Are OE front gti6 dampers worthwhile or is worth going to the ones supplied by ECP? as I believe there 10% firmer?

As I have just ordered some OE rears, currently running eibach pro springs upfront.

Many thanks,

Matt

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Posted 11th Mar 2010 at 04:34
matt evans

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Post #44
I set off an hour earlier than normal for work this morning for a decent country lane blast in my 306. I must say the way it handles, turns in, rides the bumps, ridges and cambers, on standard suspension is spot on. The suppleness is amazing compared to the current trend for rock hard suspension (all in the name of lap times etc etc). Even the new standard Peugeot GTi (namely the 207 GTI) is horrible over bumpy roads.

I reckon the 306 are sometimes at their most enjoyable as standard - however i do appreciate thats purely subjective and everyones got their own ideas.

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honestly3k wrote:
Do you wrestle for a living matt? You sound like a monster LOL


owain wrote:
Nothing involving a 306 can be considered worthwhile.

Posted 14th Mar 2010 at 17:29
dented_vts

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Post #45
306matt wrote:
Are OE front gti6 dampers worthwhile or is worth going to the ones supplied by ECP? as I believe there 10% firmer?

As I have just ordered some OE rears, currently running eibach pro springs upfront.

Many thanks,

Matt


The Bilsteins sold by ECP are the same for all the 306 range- ie they are x percent stiffer than the dampers for the regular car, not the GTi-6. If i were you i would look at the KYB dampers at buypartsby and spend the difference on new top mounts and bushes.
Posted 14th Mar 2010 at 20:21

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