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Author Subject: 88mm (diesel) crank conversion
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #1
Is the diesel/1.9MI crank conversion possible with the 6 engine?

I've only ever heard it done with the S16 engine.

What have I got to look out for?

Thanks

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 11th Jul 2009 at 06:50
matty_rallye

Senior User

Location: Devizes

Registered: 28 Oct 2005

Posts: 966

Status: Offline

Post #2
Yes it is ok to fit, im running a 1.9d crank in mine!

________________________________________

2.1 16v 306 Rallye.
Posted 11th Jul 2009 at 14:22
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #3
What bearings and thrust bearings did you use?

Did you get a thicker headgasket?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 11th Jul 2009 at 17:26
carl.swan

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Location: Rugby

Registered: 16 Dec 2003

Posts: 234

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Post #4
which diesel engine is it then? 306TD?

________________________________________

8th 2008
14th 2007
29th 2006 (Novice Year)

Yokohama Demon Tweeks Stock Hatch Championship
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Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 15:43
mattb-6

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Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

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Post #5
You can run standard bearings, or whatever you require for your crank main bearing sizes if its been reground.

You will ideally need different pistons which will need to be machined (2mm removed from crown) to sit flush with the block at TDC, this also requires larger valve reliefs (2mm deeper) to be machined. I'm not sure if theres enough material on the standard to pistons to allow these to be machine, but I think that would be a bit risky. By doing all this you keep the head gasket/head all the same.

The crank would be from a 1.9td XU engine.

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 15:55
paul_13

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Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #6
It will be a 1.9TD crank from a 306.

Thanks for the advice Mattb-6, I am looking to buy a spare block at some point and build this up gradually, then put the engine in place.

When you say valve reliefs, is that the valve seats? Sorry i'm not that clued up on engine terms, I know the basics.

Also standard bearings from a gti6 or diesel?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 16:01
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #7
S16 rods + pistons, no machining Thumbs up

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 16:03
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #8
Bugger! Just sent some out to portugal to a forum member

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 16:19
mattb-6

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Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

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Post #9
By valve releifs I mean the machining in the top of the pistons to cater for the valves.

Even with S16 internals I think you will need to do some machining. The S16 is designed for an 86mm stroke and so with 88mm stroke at TDC the piston crown will be sitting 1mm above the block deck which basically is not good. I would suggest you would want to take 1mm of the top of the pistons so that it sits flush and keeps your squish volume correct.

As for bearings, you can in theory run either diesel or gti6. I would personally stick with the gti6 bearings (or uprated versions of them).

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 22:42
carl.swan

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Location: Rugby

Registered: 16 Dec 2003

Posts: 234

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Post #10
1.9 8v xu no good? I have a 205 1.9 engine that i could strip down

________________________________________

8th 2008
14th 2007
29th 2006 (Novice Year)

Yokohama Demon Tweeks Stock Hatch Championship
swanracing on youtube for video's
Posted 12th Jul 2009 at 23:32
paul_13

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Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #11
I have a set of 1.9 8v pistons but i've a feeling they're no good.

Oh well will have to get some forged jobbies Smile

Is this conversion a no go with cams aswell?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 04:02
mattb-6

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Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

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Post #12
It will be no problem using uprated cams, but you will need to increase the valve relief depth further to give clearance for any higher lift/longer duration cams.

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 13:28
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #13
S16 pistons are flat top and sit 1mm below deck on an 86mm crank, Razz

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 17:16
mattb-6

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Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

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Post #14
Really, interesting to know.

From memory, the valve reliefs on the S16 pistons is very small - I would imagine these would need increasing at least...

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 18:16
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #15
no, the S16 ones are huge compared to the gti6.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 18:38
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #16
What kind of BHP/torque figures have people gained from this conversion compared to the standard crank?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 13th Jul 2009 at 22:13
16v205

Junior User

Location: Redditch

Registered: 30 May 2005

Posts: 71

Status: Offline

Post #17
Hi

Are you on drivers at all? I built a 2140cc engine with a few extra bits.

Clicky

Rich

________________________________________

205 Gti-6 223bhp & 190lb/ft, still running in Smile
Posted 15th Jul 2009 at 19:51
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #18
I am indeed mate, just had a glance.

Very interesting read, basically a step by step guide Big grin

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 15th Jul 2009 at 23:05
mattb-6

Regular

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

Status: Offline

Post #19
A few months back I read on 205drivers about a guy who ran one of the 2.1td cranks in an S16 block.

I happen to have one of these cranks sitting in my garage however the big ends measure 2mm wider than the standard XU10J4RS engine. Anyone know how the guy got around this, I'm pretty sure he was running S16 rods...

This Thread!

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 16th Jul 2009 at 20:27
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #20
Ah Sarty's build, i'll have a gander over it and come up with an answer.

Another bloke on 205 drivers used the diesel thrust bearing and put a few tacks on with the welder then ground them off to size to make up the tolerance issues.

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 16th Jul 2009 at 21:53
mattb-6

Regular

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 18 Jun 2007

Posts: 324

Status: Offline

Post #21
paul_xiii wrote:
Ah Sarty's build, i'll have a gander over it and come up with an answer.

Another bloke on 205 drivers used the diesel thrust bearing and put a few tacks on with the welder then ground them off to size to make up the tolerance issues.


Cheers - I tried to register to ask the question, but it said the board is no longer accepting new registrations... Sad

________________________________________

No more Pugs... Team Focus RS now Big grin
Posted 16th Jul 2009 at 23:50
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #22
send one of the admin an email, they're doing it manually at the moment I believe

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 17th Jul 2009 at 03:58
ryangti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Pontypool

Registered: 01 Sep 2006

Posts: 1,839

Status: Offline

Post #23
Ive been looking into doing this too the 1800 bottom end.

Does anyone know whats needed to do this?

Sorry for the ot Paul.

________________________________________

Ryan
Posted 17th Jul 2009 at 20:32
snooks

Junior User

Location: Bergen

Registered: 09 Jan 2009

Posts: 80

Status: Offline

Post #24
ryangti6 wrote:
Ive been looking into doing this too the 1800 bottom end.

Does anyone know whats needed to do this?

Sorry for the ot Paul.


There are some good threads on 205drivers regarding this engine also. Best conversion using the XU7 engine is Mi interals with a XU10J4RS head.
Posted 17th Jul 2009 at 20:43
paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

Status: Offline

Post #25
What crank is better to use the 1.9 16v MI crank or the 306 diesel?

I think one is fully counterweighted other isn't, also what about bearing width on both?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 17th Jul 2009 at 21:44

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