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Author Subject: low boost ....trackday engine temperatures
a1rak

Newbie

Location: wokingham

Registered: 13 Aug 2010

Posts: 20

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Post #1
Just taken my low boost on its first track-day. I have used a 306 Rallye for 5 years on track days without any issues. The new car car performs fine when driven moderately hard ie 5k rev limit temps all stay as you would expect. however if i push on hard as you would normally on a track and use 6.5k to 7k max rpm the engine very quickly goes into the RED on the temp gauge. you get maybe 1 or 2 quick laps and have to come in.

I have a brand new Nissens rad fitted tried with the thermostat removed still no joy. I can do 100mph on the road and it does not have a problem. It seems that using all the power sends the car into a overheat situation. My question is do other supercharged 306 use the standard radiator or an upgraded one? if the standard one is normally OK any suggestions on what it might be.

The inter-cooler seems to block all the airflow to the rad so cooling becomes marginal.
Posted 19th May 2017 at 18:01
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Denis

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Location: Cambridge

Registered: 07 Sep 2004

Posts: 491

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Post #2
I have experience of two low-boost supercharged cars on track (both have no problems in road driving).

The one with standard rad and no additional oil cooler:
- Would go in to the red after several laps and require cool-down laps to bring the temperature back to normal.

The one with custom rad (slightly bigger than standard) and 16-row oil cooler:
- Would go over 90, but not in to the red.

Removing the grill does help a bit on both cars. I also had to remove grill, on hot days, on my own Rallye (190bhp NA engine, 19row x 235mm oil cooler) to keep the temperature below 90deg.

So, the steps to take:
- Have large oil cooler (19row x 235mm minimum)
- Fit cowling between intercooler and radiator (to make sure that all the air passing intercooler also goes through the rad)
- Fit cowling around the radiator (to make sure that air flow does not go around the radiator in the engine bay)

If this still is not enough, fit larger rad.

________________________________________

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Posted 19th May 2017 at 19:24
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adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

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Post #3
Oil type makes a big difference. First trackday I did was with no oil cooler. 4 laps of combe and I'd come stop with oil temp of 130 degrees. Water was always pretty good tbh, new coolant with a nissens rad

________________________________________

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Posted 19th May 2017 at 20:10
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

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Post #4
taking the thermostat wont help in any way unless its faulty.

I would try and get an afr gauge and make sure its not running lean if the suggestions above dont help.

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Posted 19th May 2017 at 20:21
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #5
welshpug! wrote:
I would try and get an afr gauge and make sure its not running lean if the suggestions above dont help.


That's a great call.
I too have suffered with hotter than I'd like coolant on track, although never anywhere near the red.
But now I run a 19-row oil cooler, Royal Purple oil and fresh coolant.
I also use a product called "water wetter" which seems to help a bit.

All of the above keeps my oil around 100c and my coolant around the 95c mark.

Hope this helps,

Stan.

________________________________________

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
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Posted 19th May 2017 at 20:43
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Day666

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bristol

Registered: 20 Apr 2013

Posts: 5,209

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Post #6
As Russain Guy said ...agree

My Engines N/A not S/C but full race & im running a Setrab 25row oil cooler & custom Rad that you can buy off Ebay a little modification is needed though ....the Rads 1/2 as thick again as standard & I use tap water & standard 6 antifreeze & everything's great even after 10-15 laps at Combe on track days on a very warm day Thumbs up

Also A AfR is a good call but it will go up & down loads on trackdays Thumbs up

Get it checked out
Posted 19th May 2017 at 22:38
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3rd time lucky

Seasoned Pro

Location: maidstone

Registered: 23 Apr 2007

Posts: 1,878

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Post #7
I run a nissens rad. Whilst my oil cooler was disconnected, I did a bit of track driving and was chasing a C63. I was silly and carried on for about 30 mins. Being a phase 1 there is no oil temp but the car performs very well with no problems. Even without a cooler.

________________________________________

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Posted 19th May 2017 at 22:47
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adam b

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Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

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Post #8
What spark plugs and fuel too?

________________________________________

Nothing to see here
Posted 20th May 2017 at 08:21
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rich_w

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Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #9
This turned out to be HG and is all sorted now Thumbs up

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Posted 11th Jun 2017 at 20:39
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3gan

Regular

Location: Bristol

Registered: 28 Mar 2013

Posts: 173

Status: Offline
Post #10
russian guy wrote:
I have experience of two low-boost supercharged cars on track (both have no problems in road driving).

The one with standard rad and no additional oil cooler:
- Would go in to the red after several laps and require cool-down laps to bring the temperature back to normal.

The one with custom rad (slightly bigger than standard) and 16-row oil cooler:
- Would go over 90, but not in to the red.

Removing the grill does help a bit on both cars. I also had to remove grill, on hot days, on my own Rallye (190bhp NA engine, 19row x 235mm oil cooler) to keep the temperature below 90deg.

So, the steps to take:
- Have large oil cooler (19row x 235mm minimum)
- Fit cowling between intercooler and radiator (to make sure that all the air passing intercooler also goes through the rad)
- Fit cowling around the radiator (to make sure that air flow does not go around the radiator in the engine bay)

If this still is not enough, fit larger rad.


jut had my first low boost experience at castle combe, after hree laps coolant up to around 110 so did cool down laps.
i want to find a wider rad and move it closer to the intercooler and set up a cowling
my issue is i dont want the rad more than 600mm long overall as i have the supercharger oil cooler to one side of the intercooler and want to mount the oil cooler to the other side of the intercooler so it collects clean air
i have a full size intercooler also.
any ideas please people
Posted 1st Apr 2019 at 17:45
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prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,637

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Post #11
I've got a Direnza radiator on my track car, it's shorter than a 306 one but slightly thicker.
To help keep my coolant temperatures sensible i've made some shrouds surrounding the radiator and intercooler so the air has to go through it.
I've fitted a 30 row oil cooler in the offside wheel area and shrouded that so that any air coming through the old fog light hole has to run through that.
On a regular day (up to say 20c ambient) my coolant temp stays 90c or below generally, and the oil will get up to 125-130c ish.
During hot weather (in the 30c's) my coolant will get higher than i'd like so i remove the grille and have cut out the bumper behind where the number plate sits to get even more air in, then the coolant will stay ~100c or so, the oil getting hotter than i'd like but still below 140c.

Some random pics of my setup incase it's any inspiration for you:
IMG_6714 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6713 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6856 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6857 by Steve Count, on Flickr

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 1st Apr 2019 at 19:00
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3gan

Regular

Location: Bristol

Registered: 28 Mar 2013

Posts: 173

Status: Offline
Post #12
prism7guy wrote:
I've got a Direnza radiator on my track car, it's shorter than a 306 one but slightly thicker.
To help keep my coolant temperatures sensible i've made some shrouds surrounding the radiator and intercooler so the air has to go through it.
I've fitted a 30 row oil cooler in the offside wheel area and shrouded that so that any air coming through the old fog light hole has to run through that.
On a regular day (up to say 20c ambient) my coolant temp stays 90c or below generally, and the oil will get up to 125-130c ish.
During hot weather (in the 30c's) my coolant will get higher than i'd like so i remove the grille and have cut out the bumper behind where the number plate sits to get even more air in, then the coolant will stay ~100c or so, the oil getting hotter than i'd like but still below 140c.

Some random pics of my setup incase it's any inspiration for you:
IMG_6714 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6713 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6856 by Steve Count, on Flickr

IMG_6857 by Steve Count, on Flickr


many thanks
great help and just what i was looking for
i take it your intercooler and rad are quite close together
appreciate the details buddy many thanks indeed
Posted 2nd Apr 2019 at 14:00
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blandy

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bucks

Registered: 25 Feb 2007

Posts: 2,437

Status: Offline
Post #13
Lee how did it go at combe?

Pleased with the new charger set up compared to before?
Posted 3rd Apr 2019 at 13:26
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prism7guy

Seasoned Pro

Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

Posts: 4,637

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Post #14
The rad and intercooler are fairly close together, there's a pair of 10" fans stuck to the radiator sitting between them.

________________________________________

Goldie the track car.
Posted 3rd Apr 2019 at 21:18
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pug_306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Great Hockham

Registered: 28 May 2013

Posts: 1,593

Status: Offline
Post #15
3gan what rad are you running at the moment? I have no issues on track with oil or water and I run a standard nissens rad and sits around the 90 mark even after 6 or 7 hard laps.

________________________________________

1998 Supercharged White Rallye
1992 205 GTi6
205 Turbo 340bhp
Posted 3rd Apr 2019 at 21:49
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armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #16
I've only done brands hatch Indy twice and Prescott hill climb (a million times) in my low boost but had absolutely 0 overheating issues anywhen coolant wise with a standard nissens rad and a pretty bloody large intercooler infront. Only thing that gets hot is the oil but since changing to a 19 row motamec cooler and blanking off some air gaps around the radiator both the oil and water temps have been noticibly better.

I also don't run the standard heat exchanger behind the mocal oil cooler take off so once the oil gets up to 120 130 degrees it's not heating the coolant at all but purely relying on the oil cooler.

________________________________________

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Posted 5th Apr 2019 at 21:46
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adam b

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Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

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Post #17
The heat exchanger causes a lot of heat problems on track. Much more stable after getting rid, running a biggish oil cooler.

________________________________________

Nothing to see here
Posted 9th Apr 2019 at 22:08
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armzsc6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

Posts: 3,445

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Post #18
Also Lee didn't Seb fit your oil cooler between the intercooler and the rad in the end to save your brake ducts which I advised against for airflow to the rad and oil cooler? Won't be helping at all if that's how it was done. Might have moved it in the end I'm not sure.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 10th Apr 2019 at 18:28
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