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Author Subject: Throttle body cold idle advance
RallyeP6

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Location: West Byfleet

Registered: 11 Jul 2013

Posts: 451

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Post #1
Hi all throttle body users, just wondering what value cold idle advance people were running, as I set up the car for winter cold mornings.
If anyone has any values for about 900 Rpm idle and water temperatures less than 10 deg C, basically i can get mine to idle ok when cold by adjusting the throttle stop position, but when warmed up to about 70 deg C it will idle too fast.
I have tried giving it more advance when cold but it doesn't run much smoother or with a faster idle. If i were to adjust idle at 90 deg, then with the engine cold it struggles to hang on to idle at about 500 Rpm, though within about 5 mins of warming up its fine.
Any values, so i can just try please, thanks.
Posted 2nd Nov 2015 at 15:55
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #2
no idea on values, but I do know that once the throttle stop and tps are set that you shouldn't touch them once it has been mapped, otherwise you effectively scrap the map.

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Posted 2nd Nov 2015 at 16:55
devere

Senior User

Location: Saxtead

Registered: 16 Dec 2008

Posts: 810

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Post #3
From my own experience, you only really want to try changing the coolant temp enrichment table by the sounds of what your looking for. I would assume you want to add a small amount of fuel. But only really beat done with the wide band oxygen sensor and gauge hooked up.

It's trial and error on cold start. You only really get one shot at cold start mapping every few hours as you then have to let it get cold gain. Should be a fairly smooth curve if the rest of the map is good.
Posted 2nd Nov 2015 at 18:29
RallyeP6

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Registered: 11 Jul 2013

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Post #4
Its only the water temperature advance map that I have adjusted, as it can be adjusted as a percentage advance of the running map. It was originally set up by Track n Road in January, but since could never get the idle from cold right. I have a wideband display installed, fuelling is ok, just thought someone may have some figures for advance i could try. Also have multiple copies of the original map saved on different devices, just in case.
I have been increasing advance bit by bit, but not found the sweet spot yet.
Posted 3rd Nov 2015 at 09:15
devere

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Location: Saxtead

Registered: 16 Dec 2008

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Post #5
When your talking about advance are you meaning the timing ignition advance though? I haven't changed any ignition timing on my cold idle settings. I worked on the coolant fuel trim fuelling table.

I don't have a copy of my map on this computer otherwise id screen shot mine. I found it was merely a case of some live changing of the values and got it running fairly easily with either a little more or little less fuel, then as it warmed following the point on the graph and adjusting the fuel as it went up. Ended with a fairly smooth curve down to zero added fuel.
Posted 3rd Nov 2015 at 17:29
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

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Post #6
welshpug! wrote:
no idea on values, but I do know that once the throttle stop and tps are set that you shouldn't touch them once it has been mapped, otherwise you effectively scrap the map.


Depends how they were set in the mapping. Personally I do the stops at the ultimate limits for adjustment on the throttle body to stop this, but many don't.

You want to be idling close to zero degrees when hot with the throttle set, and then you'll have room to push more advance in if the rpms drop or the engine is cold. Does mean you use bit more fuel, etc when hot than using an idle valve though.

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Posted 3rd Nov 2015 at 21:55
RallyeP6

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Post #7
I would like to use an idle control valve but it means drilling the inlet manifold because there is no space on the Jenvey bodies to fit anything. It already has air correction needle valves and lock nuts on each intake of the bodies.
I do re adjust the throttle stops in the map each time i make an adjustment, even though they are tiny.
Anyway more tinkering at the weekend needed.

Thanks for the replies chaps.
Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 11:27
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

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Post #8
Sandy's approach is to wind the screws fully closed and use the throttle stop to crack them open a bit further, I think this gives a smoother transition from off to on throttle.

Make sure the screw is a tight fit, and that the throttle will open fully too, most of them don't actually go to WOT, a small tweak of the throttle arm sort that.

From there its all done on the map, re-setting the tps each time isn't enough, you need to look at the map properly.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 11:47
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

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Post #9
The problem there is if the map is already setup you shouldn't be changing the stops in the map. Otherwise you're altering all the low throttle mapping.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
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Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 11:48
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

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Post #10
welshpug! wrote:


Make sure the screw is a tight fit, and that the throttle will open fully too, most of them don't actually go to WOT, a small tweak of the throttle arm sort that.


It should be noted that that is deliberate in most throttle body designs, because of the length of the throttle plate and the shaft diameter there is effectively no difference in max airflow between 85* opening and a 'full' 90* opening.
Therefore the maximum is set to the 85* figure deliberately so you have more control authority elsewhere, and for redundancy in case the return spring snaps, as the airflow will still attempt to shut the throttle plate.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 11:58
RallyeP6

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Location: West Byfleet

Registered: 11 Jul 2013

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Post #11
Adjusting the throttle stop screw for idle is minute though, values on DTA win for the closed position vary from 24-27 (throttle stop screen) and these are less than 1% on the throttle position when looking at the real time screens.
I have written down the resistance of the TPS too at closed, so that the throttle butterflies can be closed back to where they were originally.
Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 13:34
rich_w

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Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #12
On the DTA based SC engines we used ignition advance as idle control. When very cold it can have as much as 45 degrees of advance, backing off to sparking at TDC when hot (0 degrees advance).

You just need to play with it and see what works best.

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Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 16:08
RallyeP6

Regular

Location: West Byfleet

Registered: 11 Jul 2013

Posts: 451

Status: Offline

Post #13
Thanks for that Rich, at least I know I can give it a maximum of 45 deg advance if needed.
Posted 4th Nov 2015 at 16:24

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