Post #26
Miles your engine is teh Superhero of engiens though.I reckoon it was handmade on a tuesday afternoon by jesus.
How many miles is on it now?
________________________________________
Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg
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| Author | Subject: Examples of induction? |
 eliotrw
Seasoned Pro  Location: Southwark Registered: 18 Jul 2010 Posts: 4,864 Status: Offline |
I reckoon it was handmade on a tuesday afternoon by jesus. How many miles is on it now? |
 Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 16:22
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #27
Miles' engine is probably making good power because it has loosened up.  These engines seem to get better the more miles you put on them.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 19:05
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miles
Seasoned Pro  Location: Ringwood Registered: 28 Dec 2002 Posts: 3,433 Status: Offline |
Post #28
First failure now thou, HG going which at a shade over 285,000. I think this is outrageous so a letter of complaint is going off to Peugeot.Cutting away airbox, scopes etc all have an effect on high and low pressure area's, There's allot of info on this ________________________________________ 306 Rallye Sptint/Race Car, 205 CTI 1.9 8v to name a fewRoad, Track and Race/Rally car preparation to your personal requirements, Full Workshop & Diagnostic Facilities New and Second parts, from Plugs to Turbo's We now also carry out Routine Servicing www.pugracing.com & FB Page, https://www.facebook.com/PugRacing Ebay; http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pug-Racing-Shop 2012/2013/2014/2019 Class Winners at Gurston Down Speed Hillclimb & Joint overall, Class record too along the way, |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 19:34
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #29
miles wrote: First failure now thou, HG going which at a shade over 285,000. I think this is outrageous so a letter of complaint is going off to Peugeot.  I'd love to see their reply.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 19:35
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coskev
Seasoned Pro  Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #30
miles wrote: Cutting away airbox, scopes etc all have an effect on high and low pressure area's, There's allot of info on this But to be fair if my car makes good power,goes well on the road,I can't see its done anything detramental  In general the colder the air going into the engine the better,so the standard snorkel does not get it easily,cut off like mine it does  ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 22:48
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24seven
Seasoned Pro  Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #31
If having a shorter "chopped" "ram air " (lol) scoop sitting under the grill is actually any better, this is how Peugeot would have made it. After all, it's less material they have to mould which may not sound like a lot, but over the 9 year production run of the 306, that would have amounted to a substantial cost saving. For best performance, leave the standard air box in place if you're using the standard manifold. If it's just the noise you want, do whatever. ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 23:33
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dan86
Senior User  Location: Bideford Registered: 10 May 2009 Posts: 548 Status: Offline |
Post #32
At high speed there is a lot of pressure in front of the fans/radiator. This is a good place for the intake duct.I wouldn't have thought you would get the same pressure in front of a 6" wide duct pointed towards the wind. The vacuum at the intake is going to be way more than any ram setup could force down it anyway. The intake ducting just needs to begin in a position where it can get cold fresh air taken from the area with the highest air pressure. Chevrolet used cowl induction where the intake air originates at the base of the windscreen and travels forwards under the rear of the bonnet towards the intake. They found that the pressure was massive in front of the windscreen and would feed the vacuum of the engine better than non cowl induction. I would say the airflow would be smoother entering the original horn shaped duct than going into one that's had the end sawn off with blunt edges. I think the standard setup is very well thought out and having a performance filter in the standard airbox is a very effective setup. ________________________________________ |
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Posted 30th Nov 2012 at 23:58
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #33
I don't have the notes to hand, but I once hand calculated an approximate gain in bhp an F1 car sees at 180mph from the "ram effect" of the air intake above the driver's head. It was only something like 3%.________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 00:26
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #34
24seven wrote: If having a shorter "chopped" "ram air " (lol) scoop sitting under the grill is actually any better, this is how Peugeot would have made it. After all, it's less material they have to mould which may not sound like a lot, but over the 9 year production run of the 306, that would have amounted to a substantial cost saving. For best performance, leave the standard air box in place if you're using the standard manifold. If it's just the noise you want, do whatever. As above,my car makes good power and goes well on the road As for your 'best performance' quote,presume you have done some testing of both types to back that up? Or do you mean 'best performance' in your opinion without having tried both? Lots of cars and motor bikes run ram air intakes,modded and standard,perhaps they are all wrong and should use a snorkel just sat behind the grille instead?  ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 00:31
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #35
coskev wrote: 24seven wrote: If having a shorter "chopped" "ram air " (lol) scoop sitting under the grill is actually any better, this is how Peugeot would have made it. After all, it's less material they have to mould which may not sound like a lot, but over the 9 year production run of the 306, that would have amounted to a substantial cost saving. For best performance, leave the standard air box in place if you're using the standard manifold. If it's just the noise you want, do whatever. As above,my car makes good power and goes well on the road As for your 'best performance' quote,presume you have done some testing of both types to back that up? Or do you mean 'best performance' in your opinion without having tried both? Lots of cars and motor bikes run ram air intakes,modded and standard,perhaps they are all wrong and should use a snorkel just sat behind the grille instead? I mean best performance as in Peugeot probably spent a lot of time and money on R&D getting the standard setup to work well because they wanted the car to have more power than rival models which were fitted with turbo's, whereas the home-brew induction kit/modified pipe/bodge/halfords specials make a nice sporty sound so they must be good and don't actually need any R&D on them other than a couple of biased "tests" they carry out (poorly) just so they don't infringe on any advertising standards when they put nice brightly coloured graphs on the packaging... That and several years of in-depth theory and literature reviews because engine design is a subject I very much enjoy and want to spend my career working on. A "ram air" intake scoop on one of these engines with the standard manifold does little-to-nothing at best. ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 00:45
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #36
24seven wrote: coskev wrote: 24seven wrote: If having a shorter "chopped" "ram air " (lol) scoop sitting under the grill is actually any better, this is how Peugeot would have made it. After all, it's less material they have to mould which may not sound like a lot, but over the 9 year production run of the 306, that would have amounted to a substantial cost saving. For best performance, leave the standard air box in place if you're using the standard manifold. If it's just the noise you want, do whatever. As above,my car makes good power and goes well on the road As for your 'best performance' quote,presume you have done some testing of both types to back that up? Or do you mean 'best performance' in your opinion without having tried both? Lots of cars and motor bikes run ram air intakes,modded and standard,perhaps they are all wrong and should use a snorkel just sat behind the grille instead? I mean best performance as in Peugeot probably spent a lot of time and money on R&D getting the standard setup to work well because they wanted the car to have more power than rival models which were fitted with turbo's, whereas the home-brew induction kit/modified pipe/bodge/halfords specials make a nice sporty sound so they must be good and don't actually need any R&D on them other than a couple of biased "tests" they carry out (poorly) just so they don't infringe on any advertising standards when they put nice brightly coloured graphs on the packaging... That and several years of in-depth theory and literature reviews because engine design is a subject I very much enjoy and want to spend my career working on. A "ram air" intake scoop on one of these engines with the standard manifold does little-to-nothing at best. It works on my car So thats all I'm interested in thanks, until you prove your theory on car with the two different intakes fitted that is  ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 16:00
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #37
And as for your 'bodge' quote I think you best look abit nearer home before calling anyone's work a bodge!!! I've seen your attempt at a 309 eng conversion.......  ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 16:03
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #38
coskev wrote: And as for your 'bodge' quote I think you best look abit nearer home before calling anyone's work a bodge!!! I've seen your attempt at a 309 eng conversion....... Have you now? When and where did you see this? ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 18:49
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swiftyboi006
Seasoned Pro  Location: Maidenhead Registered: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 2,110 Status: Offline |
Post #39
________________________________________ cherry p1.....SOLD (regreting this)blaze p2.....why did i buy this SOLD Black p3 |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 19:00
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #40
Reason I ask is because I don't recall anyone on this forum or any other having a look at it (except Ash and I didn't leave the key with it) and then it was stolen back in June. So either there's been some confusion or someone's got some explaining to do...And for what it's worth the "bodge" comment wasn't intended for you Kev (I thought that much would have been obvious unless you yourself consider yours to be all of the things I described) so don't take that personally. ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 1st Dec 2012 at 19:09
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #41
24seven wrote: coskev wrote: And as for your 'bodge' quote I think you best look abit nearer home before calling anyone's work a bodge!!! I've seen your attempt at a 309 eng conversion....... Have you now? When and where did you see this? Was talking about your thread on 309gti forum!!! Mind you I quite often travel all over Wales stealing rough old 309's in my spare time ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 12:09
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #42
coskev wrote: 24seven wrote: coskev wrote: And as for your 'bodge' quote I think you best look abit nearer home before calling anyone's work a bodge!!! I've seen your attempt at a 309 eng conversion....... Have you now? When and where did you see this? Was talking about your thread on 309gti forum!!! Mind you I quite often travel all over Wales stealing rough old 309's in my spare time Ahh, so you mean this photo of an incomplete conversion then? Well that says it all! Only the world's worst bodge artist could have possibly carried out an engine conversion and had it sat unfinished for a couple of days! [edit] Also I found my notes on ram air. With a few small assumptions on altitude air density and so on, at 100m/s the power gain is something like 6%. So you'll be pleased to know that next time you're sitting at 223mph your F1 style ram air induction mod is gaining you about 10bhp over the book figure. Congratulations! ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 12:35
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #43
24seven wrote: coskev wrote: 24seven wrote: coskev wrote: And as for your 'bodge' quote I think you best look abit nearer home before calling anyone's work a bodge!!! I've seen your attempt at a 309 eng conversion....... Have you now? When and where did you see this? Was talking about your thread on 309gti forum!!! Mind you I quite often travel all over Wales stealing rough old 309's in my spare time Ahh, so you mean this photo of an incomplete conversion then? Well that says it all! Only the world's worst bodge artist could have possibly carried out an engine conversion and had it sat unfinished for a couple of days! [edit] Also I found my notes on ram air. With a few small assumptions on altitude air density and so on, at 100m/s the power gain is something like 6%. So you'll be pleased to know that next time you're sitting at 223mph your F1 style ram air induction mod is gaining you about 10bhp over the book figure. Congratulations! As I say,it works on my car thanks You stick to your calculations on paper oh wise one I've used three different intakes on my car,everything else exactly the same: 1,induction kit,great noise,crap low down throttle response,worst feeling driving. 2,full standard induction,better to drive than induction kit,hardly any induction noise. 3,as it is now,standard airbox with RamAir cone inside it,resonator removed,snorkel cut.Best of the three to drive by far,with more induction noise. So untill you have real evidence my set-up does not work/make the car better to drive/more powerfull wind your neck in and go do your homework clever dick ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 12:52
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #44
coskev wrote: As I say,it works on my car thanks You stick to your calculations on paper oh wise one I've used three different intakes on my car,everything else exactly the same: 1,induction kit,great noise,crap low down throttle response,worst feeling driving. 2,full standard induction,better to drive than induction kit,hardly any induction noise. 3,as it is now,standard airbox with RamAir cone inside it,resonator removed,snorkel cut.Best of the three to drive by far,with more induction noise. So untill you have real evidence my set-up does not work/make the car better to drive/more powerfull wind your neck in and go do your homework clever dick Let me ask YOU then. Do YOU have any evidence that it works on your car, other than the rose tinted spectacles you wear while w**king over your own handiwork? Do you have any before & after RR results to show that your "ram air" chop actually works? Never mind the rest of it, that's not what we're talking about. ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 12:55
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7057sam
Seasoned Pro  Location: Stowmarket,Suffolk Registered: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 2,080 Status: Offline |
Post #45
Mine viper with cold air feed   The feed does'nt look half bad either  ________________________________________ Rallye build: 11 November 1998 - a WednesdayTeam rallye,built for track ----Click this if you like rallyes Rallye dead  Secret Team Astor... |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 13:07
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mik
Seasoned Pro  Location: Kent Registered: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 2,100 Status: Offline |
Post #46
Judging by the muck all over the bumper it probably also sucks in bugs, road dirt, small pedestrians etc. That setup would be OK on the track but for normal road use I'd stick with something close to the original location. ________________________________________ Cherry Rallye SOLD |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 13:57
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hovis16
Seasoned Pro  Location: Reading/parts for sale Registered: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4,297 Status: Offline |
Post #47
mik wrote: Judging by the muck all over the bumper it probably also sucks in bugs, road dirt, small pedestrians etc. That setup would be OK on the track but for normal road use I'd stick with something close to the original location. i have this same set up just keep and eye out for puddles and clean it every other month and its fine. although in the wetter weather i disconnect it ________________________________________ Ph2 Black GTI 6!EX black 6 owner But now a Black caged rallye owner Hunting for Go faster bits! SEARCH click here |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 14:05
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coskev
Seasoned Pro Location: Oswestry Registered: 01 Nov 2009 Posts: 3,132 Status: Offline |
Post #48
24seven wrote: coskev wrote: As I say,it works on my car thanks You stick to your calculations on paper oh wise one I've used three different intakes on my car,everything else exactly the same: 1,induction kit,great noise,crap low down throttle response,worst feeling driving. 2,full standard induction,better to drive than induction kit,hardly any induction noise. 3,as it is now,standard airbox with RamAir cone inside it,resonator removed,snorkel cut.Best of the three to drive by far,with more induction noise. So untill you have real evidence my set-up does not work/make the car better to drive/more powerfull wind your neck in and go do your homework clever dick Let me ask YOU then. Do YOU have any evidence that it works on your car, other than the rose tinted spectacles you wear while w**king over your own handiwork? Do you have any before & after RR results to show that your "ram air" chop actually works? Never mind the rest of it, that's not what we're talking about. It's like talking to my daughter, clever academically, too much attitude and hardly any common sense Like I said, your talking about something on a piece of paper, you've prob found on Google I've tried three set ups in the real world fitted to a car that i drive and this feels the best thanks  Typical university student know it all!!!! ________________________________________ Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress. |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 16:41
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24seven
Seasoned Pro Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #49
coskev wrote: "no, I don't have any proof but I'm not going to *actually* say that because even though I'm nearing middle age I never did get over that primary school playground attitude where you can never admit to being wrong, so here are some words to distract you for a moment. EFA ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 17:04
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aaron6
Seasoned Pro  Location: On the sofa in maidstone Registered: 16 May 2006 Posts: 5,840 Status: Offline |
Post #50
I maintain that the best all round set up is the standard set up with a modified airbox running a decent filter. You don't have to worry about puddles, it sounds reasonable and gives a good sharp throttle response. I've tried and seen lots of different methods and for my liking this is the best all rounder. ________________________________________ See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl. |
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Posted 2nd Dec 2012 at 17:23
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