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Author Subject: weight of 306 on a trailer
af1-gti

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Post #1
Hi i have a stripped out 306, will have a cage in it soon. looking at doing my trailer test, but at present its all a muddle to me!
whats the average weight of a trailer, i'll likely be hiring one for track days

what towing capacity should i be looking at for a tug car, my current motor is rated 1500kg which i think is too little
would 2000kg be about enough?

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Posted 27th May 2012 at 19:12
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ian7675

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Post #2
I would say 2000kg would be plenty though I would guess a stripped car and trailer would actually be app. 1500kg but it's not worth the risk when it comes to weights on the road. I estimated a trailer to weigh about 400kg and these seem about right.

clicky

You might just get away with the 1500kg depending on your cars weight Thumbs up

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Posted 27th May 2012 at 19:18
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mjt4130

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Post #3
what do we think about a Passat estate towing a 6? Passat is a smidge over 1500kg
Posted 27th May 2012 at 22:21
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #4
It will be fine. Yes

A lot of people in the past have used GTi-6's to pull other GTi-6's on trailers. Shock
They never had any issues...Wink

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Posted 27th May 2012 at 23:58
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welshpug!

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Post #5
other than technically being uninsured with a 306+trailer behind a 306 its really a pretty daft idea.

most decent trailers are around 400 kilos, 306 1000-1200kg, so still marginal with only a 1500 towing weight.

dont forget the mam and train weights, and your 3.5t licence, a 4x4 or large estate with a sizeable empty trailer can exceed your mam rules even if safe..

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Posted 28th May 2012 at 07:18
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matt evans

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Post #6
Its a minefield TBH. Yes the passat could do it, probably without flinching, but like Mei says, if you are over the max train weight, and a knowledgable plod or VOSA stop you, its a whole hill of worry.

Cheap 4x4 with a 3500kg towing limit (like my old fourtrack) would do the job and remain legal at all times.

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owain wrote:
Nothing involving a 306 can be considered worthwhile.

Posted 28th May 2012 at 08:20
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owain

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Post #7
Apart from the legal side (and the fact that if your car doesn't look up to it you're far more likely to get tugged by Vosa/Police) there's also the issue of damaging your tow car.

Most road cars (estate or not) are simply not designed to tow loads like that, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could end up damaging the car trying. If you attach a trailer to a chassis that was never made for it, I can see how you could easily deform the chassis of your car irreparably. Bear in mind the back end of most cars is designed to crumple, not to tug two tonnes up a hill.

I'd guess you'd also cane your clutch.

I seem to remember licence-wise it's all down to combined weight of everything you're driving and towing, so having a spare set of wheels in the back, a passenger or two, toolkits, these things can all easily knock you over the thresholds.

Not worth the risk IMO, just do the trailer test and do it safely Yes

As for this:

mjt4130 wrote:
what do we think about a Passat estate towing a 6? Passat is a smidge over 1500kg


Autotrader lists the max braked towing weight of a Passat estate as being 1300kg, which is nowhere near enough.

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Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:19
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #8
welshpug! wrote:
other than technically being uninsured with a 306+trailer behind a 306 its really a pretty daft idea.


It wouldn't be my personal choice, just saying some have done it in the past without difficulty. Wink

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Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:22
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dangti6

aka JKshooter

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Post #9
Not forgetting the example of a 306 towing a 306 (If Stan is talking of the same one) was CC as a last resort taking it to a bodyshop a short distance away. Not deciding it would be the way forward as transport for 10 trackdays a year over the country.

Can of worms here. But doesn't the tow car itself have to exceed the combined weight of load it's towing?

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    • Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:28
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    yippeekayay

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    Post #10
    Am with wp on this. Get yourself a trooper or other cheap 4x4 as I have done. Nothing to worry about then. Similar shogun or land cruiser if you can afford. Best tow barge available. My outback was good but just a little slow.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:34
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    owain

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    Post #11
    dangti6 wrote:
    doesn't the tow car itself have to exceed the combined weight of load it's towing?


    Gotta be honest I've never seen that, but I think that's probably because tow cars by their very nature have to have big heavy steel reinforced chassis so they'd be heavy anyway, so you could be right.

    Here's the rules:

    DirectGov wrote:
    All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM

    Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.


    So yes Dan you're right - trailer can't weigh more than the car, and the two together can't weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.

    DirectGov wrote:
    For example:

    a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

    Whereas the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

    Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:37
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    owain

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    Post #12
    yippeekayay wrote:
    Am with wp on this. Get yourself a trooper or other cheap 4x4 as I have done. Nothing to worry about then. Similar shogun or land cruiser if you can afford. Best tow barge available. My outback was good but just a little slow.


    Completely agree, if I ever had the space I'd buy myself some crapper of a 4x4 which was made for the job and could do it safely and legally without issue. The gearbox is made for it, the clutch is up to the job, it's just what you need.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:39
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    daveyboy

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    Post #13
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    welshpug! wrote:
    other than technically being uninsured with a 306+trailer behind a 306 its really a pretty daft idea.


    It wouldn't be my personal choice, just saying some have done it in the past without difficulty. Wink


    Without difficulty isn't the same thing as safely or legally. Considering your the fact that you normally like to take the high ground when it comes to road safety Stan I should refrain from recommending suitable tow vehicles and suggesting what is ok and what isn't unless you are dealing with facts. For towing a heavy load such as a car you are looking at needing a large 4x4 (Rangie or Land Rover for preference) or a commercial vehicle like a Transit etc. The trailer test itself including training is likely to exceed a grand, with no garantee of passing (I hear it's quite difficult). Add to that the cost of a decent car transporter trailer 600_1000+ and you might actually be better off sourcing a beavertail vehicle recovery truck.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:40
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    owain

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    Post #14
    In addition to what Jim says, I think there's a lot to be said for doing some kind of lessons anyway, even if you're prehistoric and have a licence from before 1997.

    I know people who have grandfather rights on towing and are awful at it as they've never had lessons, they've just hitched up a massive trailer and gone out on the road. They don't know the laws, and they don't know what to do if it starts to go wrong. They certainly can't reverse the thing.

    In contrast I also know a much younger guy who had to do his test, and as a result had to do lots of practice manoeuvring and reversing a trailer so is much better, more confident and safer as a result.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 09:45
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #15
    daveyboy wrote:
    stan_306gti6 wrote:
    welshpug! wrote:
    other than technically being uninsured with a 306+trailer behind a 306 its really a pretty daft idea.


    It wouldn't be my personal choice, just saying some have done it in the past without difficulty. Wink


    Without difficulty isn't the same thing as safely or legally. Considering your the fact that you normally like to take the high ground when it comes to road safety Stan I should refrain from recommending suitable tow vehicles and suggesting what is ok and what isn't unless you are dealing with facts. For towing a heavy load such as a car you are looking at needing a large 4x4 (Rangie or Land Rover for preference) or a commercial vehicle like a Transit etc. The trailer test itself including training is likely to exceed a grand, with no garantee of passing (I hear it's quite difficult). Add to that the cost of a decent car transporter trailer 600_1000+ and you might actually be better off sourcing a beavertail vehicle recovery truck.



    Roll eyes

    As stated above, I didn't recommend it or even say it was safe or legal.

    I simply stated that others in the past have done it fine with no issues, that is all. Yes

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 11:11
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    daveyboy

    aka Jim Davey

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    Post #16
    Exactly, they have done it illegally, I could drive my car uninsured from one side of town to the other and probably not get caught, so no issues, see how it's the same thing?(I wouldn't though, as it's not on, and I would be justly crucified on here if I did.) It's when you have an accident or a problem (Even a breakdown on the motorway will likely cause the plod to arrive, and when they start asking difficult questions it all goes awry) that it hits the fan.
    I just think that in your position as a moderator rightly or wrongly your opinion will carry more weight, and anyone who decides as a result of your stating that 'other people have done it' to try is bieng led astray.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 12:48
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    thugpuggin

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    Post #17
    daveyboy wrote:
    I just think that in your position as a moderator rightly or wrongly your opinion will carry more weight, and anyone who decides as a result of your stating that 'other people have done it' to try is bieng led astray.



    I'm now off to buy a tow bar, trailer and another 6 just because Stan says others have done it.

    He's only stating what others have done not asking you to jump off a cliff.

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 13:03
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    daveyboy

    aka Jim Davey

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    Post #18
    I just think it was a rather poinless thing to say. Especially as its quite obviously not ok.

    If b11bob said it was fine and dandy to drive an unroadworthy vehicle which would obviously void its insurance then it would be flame o'clock ath the the 306Gti6 Bar and Grill Wink

    The double standards around here get on my tits.

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    Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
    Engine mount/chassis repair
    Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
    Harness bars
    Posted 28th May 2012 at 13:39
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #19
    thugpuggin wrote:
    daveyboy wrote:
    I just think that in your position as a moderator rightly or wrongly your opinion will carry more weight, and anyone who decides as a result of your stating that 'other people have done it' to try is bieng led astray.



    I'm now off to buy a tow bar, trailer and another 6 just because Stan says others have done it.

    He's only stating what others have done not asking you to jump off a cliff.


    I'm glad someone saw my point...

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 16:44
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    stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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    Post #20
    daveyboy wrote:
    I just think it was a rather poinless thing to say. Especially as its quite obviously not ok.

    If b11bob said it was fine and dandy to drive an unroadworthy vehicle which would obviously void its insurance then it would be flame o'clock ath the the 306Gti6 Bar and Grill Wink

    The double standards around here get on my tits.


    It's not really double standards though Jim, as Bob comes across with an attitude whereas we are just simply having a discussion. As it happens, I agree with you people shouldn't be towing 306's with 306's but the fact is that some do.

    The info that Owain posted above regarding licensing etc is very useful, and people should make sure that they have the appropriate qualifications for towing and that they don't exceed the weight limit. Yes

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 16:48
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    buzzbrightyear

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    Post #21
    if you don't have the licence I believe you can only tow a max gross weight (inc trailer) of 750kg

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 16:49
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    swiftyboi006

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    Post #22
    ^ yup

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    Posted 28th May 2012 at 20:54
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    scrane

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    Post #23
    buzzbrightyear wrote:
    if you don't have the licence I believe you can only tow a max gross weight (inc trailer) of 750kg
    correct
    Posted 29th May 2012 at 18:18
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    pete_rallye

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    Post #24
    I have towed a lot using a large estate car, namely a Volvo V70 D5, a Honda Accord and a Ford Mondeo 130 TDCi, and also a Vito 112cdi without any issues. I don't have a licence but I have weighed my car, my race car and the trailer I use and I am well within the 3.5 ton limit so am safe enough carrying fuel/tires etc with it. It's all well and good saying buy a 4x4 (although personally I'd use a van) or something but that would likely put you over the 3.5 ton limit and you'd therefore have to find another grand or so to be allowed to tow with it. I will no doubt do it one day but as I don't really find a grand easy to come by I will carry on towing with my family estate wagon for now!

    The most important thing is to make sure the trailer you are using is in tip top condition, no 4x4 will save you if you have knackered wheel bearings or s**t brakes on your trailer. Always put the engine at the tow ball end of the trailer too. Have seen a few people towing with the engine at the far end with good wiggles on!

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    Posted 29th May 2012 at 19:42
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    dangti6

    aka JKshooter

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    Post #25
    pete_rallye wrote:
    Always put the engine at the tow ball end of the trailer too. Have seen a few people towing with the engine at the far end with good wiggles on!


    LOL Made that mistake collecting a snapper once. Rolled it off the drive on the trailer as it looked to be more hassle than it was worth to manouver the car around by hand. As soon as we hit the carriageway at 40 it was all over the shop.

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    • Posted 29th May 2012 at 19:50
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