Post #26
look at the table!!!http://www.exhaustvideos.com/faq/how-to-calculate-muffler-size-pipe-diameter/
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| Author | Subject: 4-2-1 gti6 manifold |
 fatlapit
Seasoned Pro  Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
http://www.exhaustvideos.com/faq/how-to-calculate-muffler-size-pipe-diameter/ |
 Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 21:29
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #27
Good table, but the figures are confusing to say the least...My 306 is running over 450bhp on a single 2.5" pipe dia. That table says I won't be able to get over 238bhp with that setup... ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:17
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #28
I think that table is for n/a mate________________________________________ |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:24
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matty_rallye
Senior User  Location: Devizes Registered: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 966 Status: Offline |
Post #29
I made nearly 230 hp on a 2" pipe, according to that only 144 is possible  ________________________________________ 2.1 16v 306 Rallye. |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:25
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #30
fatlapit wrote: I think that table is for n/a mate  Didn't realise that...  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:26
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matty_rallye
Senior User Location: Devizes Registered: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 966 Status: Offline |
Post #31
fatlapit wrote: I think that table is for n/a mate Still miles off though! ________________________________________ 2.1 16v 306 Rallye. |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:32
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #32
Well i assume so lol i think the hp ratings are wrong tbh________________________________________ |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:32
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #33
They must be wrong. As like Matty says, even for his situation being high powered N/A they are well off reality.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:38
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bigbadbowen
Seasoned Pro  Location: Winchester Registered: 21 Nov 2003 Posts: 13,752 Status: Offline |
Post #34
Is the idea of the 4-2-1 manifold to get the hot exhaust gases out of and away from the engine quicker than a standard that has a whole load of bends ? The back presure is the other factor I assume ? I know everyone thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread but pug would of designed the manifold with economy in mind along with other factors such as pollution and noise ? |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:46
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miles
Seasoned Pro  Location: Ringwood Registered: 28 Dec 2002 Posts: 3,433 Status: Offline |
Post #35
I'll have mine tested and fitted within a couple of months so will let you all know and some of you may even see the old Girl,I do all those manifolds for both 205 and 306 fitment in mild and stainless steel, Price's of course are better than Spox's ________________________________________ 306 Rallye Sptint/Race Car, 205 CTI 1.9 8v to name a fewRoad, Track and Race/Rally car preparation to your personal requirements, Full Workshop & Diagnostic Facilities New and Second parts, from Plugs to Turbo's We now also carry out Routine Servicing www.pugracing.com & FB Page, https://www.facebook.com/PugRacing Ebay; http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pug-Racing-Shop 2012/2013/2014/2019 Class Winners at Gurston Down Speed Hillclimb & Joint overall, Class record too along the way, |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 22:54
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T400 PUG
Banned! Location: Burnley Registered: 01 Jan 1970 Posts: 641 Status: Offline |
Post #36
buzzbrightyear wrote: It would be nice to have the equipment and the ability to make a few different ones up and experiment. thats exactly it though, its anyones guess as to what one of these manis will do. cant hurt on 400+ setup though.  waits for Richw to come along with his new 700 bhp 3 second french thing on steroids. |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 23:01
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smegal
Seasoned Pro  Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #37
Isn't chris with a pug using a 421 on his high boost?________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 23:04
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #38
A straight bit of pipe has to be better than a curved one imo________________________________________ |
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Posted 16th Apr 2012 at 23:04
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #39
bigbadbowen wrote: I know everyone thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread but pug would of designed the manifold with economy in mind along with other factors such as pollution and noise ? It's not that I think its the best thing ever designed, but if I'm running over 450bhp with it, why would I need to run anything else? Rich ran 540bhp before other parts let it down not the manifold. I could up the power of mine easily using the standard manifold, but then reliability of the power unit comes into it. Maybe, as has been mentioned high power N/A MAY see a benefit in torque at the top level, but for running a charger we've proved it isn't necessary.  ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 06:24
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic
 Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #40
buzzbrightyear wrote: It would be nice to have the equipment and the ability to make a few different ones up and experiment. no need, if you know what you're doing with manifolds you'll get it pretty right first time. stan_306gti6 wrote: Maybe, as has been mentioned high power N/A MAY see a benefit in torque at the top level, but for running a charger we've proved it isn't necessary. you haven't at all though, as nobody has gone to the extent of fitting a properly designed exhaust manifold for this application. granted you can get stupid power and reasonable torque, but "what if".... ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 09:26
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #41
Ok Mei - fair point.However, why go the expense of creating a manifold that is good enough to flow 600bhp when 500bhp is probably the absolute max you would want out of the conversion and that can be achieved with the standard manifold. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:22
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic
Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #42
why did rich go to 550+ then ?  There's potential there to make it more efficient, which would mean less fuel used, less heat buildup, more reliability etc. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:25
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cjm_harris
Seasoned Pro  Location: Parts for Sale section Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 7,442 Status: Offline |
Post #43
welshpug! wrote: why did rich go to 550+ then ? There's potential there to make it more efficient, which would mean less fuel used, less heat buildup, more reliability etc. This is what I was thinking Surely with a manifold with bigger diameter pipes and straighter would get rid of exhaust gases quicker, meaning that would get rid of heat quicker? If Rich's suffered with heat issues between cylinders, would that of been better if a different manifold was used? If so, then having one would be useful, as means Stan/Buzz could run more than 500. (yes traction would still be an issue  )________________________________________ Chris1999 China Gti6 Supercharged  [Fun car] >>Project Thread<<2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout] |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:29
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #44
At 500+bhp the power became very 'peaky'. It was felt that you would get better driveability at around the 450bhp mark which is why that is the aimed for target.Don't forget the C38 series charger can deliver 600bhp, but it really isn't necessary. If people really think its something that can be improved, let Buzz try an alternative manifold and lets see the results. ________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:33
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #45
That rough table is out by about 15-20%, for a well designed system. In fact if you look at the next figure up from the size you're after, it's about right then.Of course you can make more power through a smaller system, but usually that does mean higher EGT's and less power/economy than you potentially could be making (or make the same power with less boost, etc) ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:39
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic
Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #46
straighter pipes wont make a noticeable difference, its smooth radius correct lengths and diameters that counts.    ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 13:52
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woody.
Senior User  Location: London Registered: 18 May 2009 Posts: 799 Status: Offline |
Post #47
^^^^^ |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 15:21
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #48
Very sorry but a perfect exhaust is straight with no restrictions________________________________________ |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 17:44
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jimmy_boy
Senior User  Location: Christchurch Registered: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 14,752 Status: Offline |
Post #49
fatlapit wrote: Very sorry but a perfect exhaust is straight with no restrictions This kinda thing?..  ________________________________________ GTI-6 & RallyeRallye gets sideways in the wet at Snetterton  |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 18:02
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #50
fatlapit wrote: Very sorry but a perfect exhaust is straight with no restrictions You are actually very wrong, you have missed out on the benefit of pressure waves or pulses when it comes to cylinder scavenging. If the exhaust is tuned to the correct length/size the low pressure wave from the previous exhaust stroke helps to draw the exhaust gas from the next pulse down the pipe. Its all clever stuff but the point at which becomes 2 and becomes is critical to help achieve this. 4 short individual pipes would actually produce less power than 4 matched ones. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 17th Apr 2012 at 18:09
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