displaying posts 1 to 13 of 13

Author Subject: Ball joint extenders
tez_306

Junior User

Location: Australia

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 68

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi there,
For those who've lowered their 306's quite a lot, you'll notice the front lower control arms sit at quite an angle. This is what causes 'bump steer' which is basically loss of straight line stability upon suspension bound and rebound.
Now, in the VW scene were the focus is on extremely low and flush bodies - there have been ball joint extenders developed.

These however are 17mm in diameter. Our pugs use 16 and 18mm.
Do any of you know of alternatives? I'm thinking about buying them and sleeving them.
Cheers.
Posted 27th Mar 2010 at 18:23
tez_306

Junior User

Location: Australia

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 68

Status: Offline

Post #2
Heres another example
Posted 27th Mar 2010 at 18:27
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #3
without measuring the effects of extreme lowering on bump steer changes these would be pointless.



I would prefer to have some suspension travel and not be a scene slave Thumbs up

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 27th Mar 2010 at 18:52
tez_306

Junior User

Location: Australia

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 68

Status: Offline

Post #4
It has nothing to do with the scene, i merely pointed out that there are ball joints available for golfs because there's a large market for them in comparison to 306's.

I haven't measured it, but I know for certain that my control arms sit past the parallel point to the ground and its only mildly lowered. I plan on lowering it further and this will only increase the angle at which the control arms sit. As long as the roll centre is past the parallel point, there will be bump steer which I have experienced time to time at speed.
Posted 27th Mar 2010 at 19:14
mabgti

NV motors

Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

Registered: 28 Aug 2003

Posts: 9,127

Status: Offline

Post #5
sounds gud... but think it'll be more efficient just to design a rose jointed balljoint.. a simple flat laser cut steel with a welded in joint..

it makes sense, as with roller bearing bushes, bump steer is more apparent..Yes

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Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 00:00
rallye1999

Senior User

Location: redcar

Registered: 05 Jul 2009

Posts: 717

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Post #6
i thought the way to avoid bump steer on lowered cars was to raise steering rack or space the track rods lower down
Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 02:07
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #7
^Bingo.

Otherwise you're changing the instant roll centres, so you have to be sure you're doing exactly what you want.
Not a bad idea, but I'd be very wary about the leverage on the hub with that last one!

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Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 02:39
mabgti

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Post #8
so is it possible to space the steering rack higher up??

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Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 03:55
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #9
to a certain degree yes, though not sure how much space you have to play with.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 04:06
tez_306

Junior User

Location: Australia

Registered: 16 Sep 2009

Posts: 68

Status: Offline

Post #10
rallye1999 wrote:
i thought the way to avoid bump steer on lowered cars was to raise steering rack or space the track rods lower down

The steering arms is the other aspect to consider - depends on who you ask. Generally bump steer is defined as the tendency for the vehicle wheels to steer (toe out/in) upon suspension bound.
But the way I see it, bump steer will occur over two circumstances -
* Alteration of track - as the control arms move upward, the track of the vehicle decreases [ie the wheels move *inwards* towards the car]. This can bounce the vehicle to the left or right depending on which wheel (on the same axle) has more load on it at the time.
* Alteration of length of steering arms - as suspension bounds, the effective length that the steering rods need to be to maintain zero toe changes.

Another way to change steering arm angles is to use rose jointed tie rods spaced downwards from the hub knuckle as opposed to spacing the whole rack up. But however, like the above method of dropping ball joints - will place extra strain on the joint. Heres an example -


This is something i've considered for a while - I'm surprised to not have found any information on this forum about it - some of you guys have super low cars!
Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 06:32
mabgti

NV motors

Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

Registered: 28 Aug 2003

Posts: 9,127

Status: Offline

Post #11
ive been thinking bout it loads too, but phillip is the man for that shit!LOL

________________________________________

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NV Motorsport
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Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 06:55
jonnie205

Seasoned Pro

Location: Bicester

Registered: 10 Apr 2005

Posts: 4,146

Status: Offline

Post #12
the second picture looks horrendoues, that will surely break instantly, way to much load for a thin bit of bar
Posted 28th Mar 2010 at 23:19
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

Status: Offline

Post #13
Bottom of the hub will go oval in short order.

________________________________________

- Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
Email me!
Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
Posted 29th Mar 2010 at 00:46

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