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Author Subject: vss, icv and strage issues
m306

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Location: south coast

Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #1
ive had this problem for a while now and worked out the exact pattern for what it does but cant be sure whats causing it.

basically the car runs like a dream most of the time, but about 5 minutes into every journey i lose the speedo. this lasts for anything between 10 seconds to 10 minutes. to begin with i didnt take much notice of it but now its started causing other problems, all these faults only happen when the speedo is not registering. first problem is that when changing gear or stopping it has a tendency to cut out, very much like when the icv fails. and the other problem is when lifting off the throttle the engine kicks like a b*tch, its a huge jolt, i assume like if an engine mount had failed.

my theory is that its the vss at fault, but cant understand how that would link to the other problems? but they do seem connected because they all only happen together. is there something that could block/lose the signal from a selection of sensors all at the same time? a fuse/relay/ecu anything?

________________________________________

supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 13th Feb 2012 at 20:24
smegal

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Location: Leeds

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #2
Battery on its way out or a loose connection/earth.

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Ex SC-6

Now in a Megane R26
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 01:18
m306

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Location: south coast

Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #3
The battery is new so should be ok. Loose earth/connection i hadn't thought of. Would that not affect everything though?

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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 06:56
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #4
Loose connection to Earth is my vote. It wouldn't necessarily stop all electrics working, just those which are using that particular earthing point at the time.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 12:11
m306

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Location: south coast

Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #5
Are the earth points easy to find? It's something I've never looked into before so have no idea where they are

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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 12:34
rich_w

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Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #6
It sounds like a faulty VSS.

The ECU uses the VSS signal to determine whether actuators like the idle control valve need to be active or de-active.

i.e. when the ECU sees the vehicle is moving and throttle position is not at idle, the ICV is de-activated since it's operation is not required.

When the throttle is shut but the car is moving, the ECU determines this is an overrun situation and cuts injection.

And so on... So I would think the other issues you are having are due to having an intermittent or unacceptable VSS signal to the ECU.


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Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 14:07
m306

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Post #7
That's what I was hoping to hear, I just wasn't sure whether the ecu was that clever. So the kick when backing off, would that be because it's expecting it to drop to idle so cuts fuelling?

I will replace the vss and hope that that solves it, if not then I will check the earths.

________________________________________

supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 15:08
Blazeyellow Gti 6

Regular

Location: Richmond

Registered: 04 Jan 2012

Posts: 161

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Post #8
I have the exact same problem iv changed the fuel pump relay behind the battery box cos it was hanging down and the plastic around was broke and all pins were rusty was hopeful that would solve it but still no joy! Also put a brand new crank sensor on it still no joy the battery is nearly new so can't be that iv checked the earth on the battery still no joy I'm loosing patients with the fecking thing!

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R.I.P my first 6 Sad
Posted 14th Feb 2012 at 16:40
m306

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Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #9
now it feels very sluggish too, although i dont think its to do with this fault.

anyway, i tried chasing the earths around the engine bay and found something that could be suspect, i think this should be connected to something but what do you guys think? its just above the gearbox and can be seen when looking between the battery box and engine, and a word of warning, that hose to/from the radiator is bloody hot lol (apologies for the poor quality pics) first pic is looking from over passenger side wing, others are from front









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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 14:12
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #10
Yes mate, that is an earthing cable that goes from the loom (where it is still attached) and has a ring end on the other end (which is broken in your pic).

The ring end is attached to the top of gearbox via an M8 (13mm head) bolt. In your pic, the end of that earth cable has the start of the ring, and then the rest of it is broken.

What you need to do, is to cut the end off that cable, go to Maplins or simliar get a new ring connector and fit it on the end of that cable, then find a nice clean metal place on either the engine or gearbox to bolt it to. Yes

Stan. Smile

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 17:10
m306

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Post #11
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Yes mate, that is an earthing cable that goes from the loom (where it is still attached) and has a ring end on the other end (which is broken in your pic).

The ring end is attached to the top of gearbox via an M8 (13mm head) bolt. In your pic, the end of that earth cable has the start of the ring, and then the rest of it is broken.

What you need to do, is to cut the end off that cable, go to Maplins or simliar get a new ring connector and fit it on the end of that cable, then find a nice clean metal place on either the engine or gearbox to bolt it to. Yes

Stan. Smile

thanks Stan.

there is a bolt, i believe its m8, on the gearbox near to where that is and it appears to have a thicker black cable and looks like a ring connector in it? would the earth cable go onto that same bolt or should i try to connect it somewhere else?

im guessing this could very likely be the cause of my problems then?

________________________________________

supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 17:21
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #12
It will go one of them....

On the top of the gearbox, there are are two M8 bolts, one which the negative terminal of the battery bolts to and one which the earthing cable in question bolts to.

You will know the one you need when you have a look, as there will be a broken ring connector still bolted under the head of the 13mm bolt. Yes

Stan.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 17:39
m306

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Location: south coast

Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #13
stan_306gti6 wrote:
It will go one of them....

On the top of the gearbox, there are are two M8 bolts, one which the negative terminal of the battery bolts to and one which the earthing cable in question bolts to.

You will know the one you need when you have a look, as there will be a broken ring connector still bolted under the head of the 13mm bolt. Yes

Stan.

oh so the negative from the battery will be the thicker black cable, so i need to find the other one.

will it still be ok to drive? i assume i will just have the same problem as ive always had, it wont get any worse will it?

________________________________________

supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 20:20
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #14
Assuming that is your problem then it shouldn't get any worse for now. Although the earthing cable should be reaffixed as soon as possible.

You are right, the thick black cable is the battery negative cable. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 20:55
m306

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Post #15
looks like i could be going out tomorrow to get some electrical tools then, i did some wiring when building boats a few years back so know roughly what im looking for. am i right in thinking its wire strippers, crimps, and ring connectors to fit m8?

glad i got that right Smile i like things like this to help me learn a little more about the car

EDIT halfrauds have their ring connectors marked with a max amps, am i right in thinking that doesnt matter on earths?

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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 21:01
hovis16

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Post #16
I get this every now and again also. Sometimes if i hoon it out of first my lights dim and all. Will cheak me earths again.

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Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 22:41
rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

Posts: 26,793

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Post #17
this sounds identical to my issue, i just put it down to VSS but going to check the earths tomorrow. it'd only a little ring connector on the top of the box, piece of p*ss to fix. doesn't matter as it's only earthing but make sure both contact points are clean

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Posted 18th Feb 2012 at 22:45
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #18
As Rikky says, amps rating won't matter for earths but make sure that it is a good clean connection when you're finished. That's the most important thing. Smile

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 08:03
m306

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Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #19
ok thats good, thanks Smile

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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 10:04
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #20
I will be interested to see if this resolves/helps towards the resolving of your problems. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 13:29
m306

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Location: south coast

Registered: 16 May 2011

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Post #21
It may be a week or 2 though, I've switched to nights at work 5pm to 6am so will only really have time for work and sleep. And I'm hoping then I can get the car to Miles to get my suspension built so will probably get him to do the earth and vss at the same time, that would then eliminate both as possible causes. Just for curiosity purposes though I may ask him to just do the earth first and then road test to see if that solves it, then we can have a definitive answer to this thread

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supercharged China gti6 - Thu 16th Sep 1999 - sold
2010 megane rs250
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 15:29
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #22
m306 wrote:
then we can have a definitive answer to this thread


Thumbs up

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 16:12
mike rallye

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Post #23
i also have this fault intermitentlly,will check my earth to, plus what does vvs mean?
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 18:38
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #24
VSS not VVS...

Vehicle Speed Sensor. Wink

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 19:40
monty-69

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Location: Colne

Registered: 02 Jul 2006

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Post #25
I have a similar issue with the engine jolting sharply on transition from revs to idle. Kind of feels like its all or nothing. Also the engine judders on over-run. Im still on with getting to the bottom of it when i have few minutes spare. The speedo on mine will very rarely stop working but the above faults happen all the time.
Posted 19th Feb 2012 at 20:44

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