displaying posts 1 to 25 of 48

Pages (2): [1] 2

Author Subject: xu7jp4 rebuild
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #1
I'm thinking of rebuilding the second 1.8 16v engine I have laying around here... (only 84k miles) Since mine (104k miles) had a shocking 14.1 mpg last tank...

So reading through several topics, and not planning to spend shitloads on it, I came to this:

xu7jp4 ported head (sandy seemed to prefer one of these to a xu10j4rs head)
gti6 exhaust manifold
gti6 inlet with 1.8 injectors
gti6 cams and pulleys
lightened crankshaft pulley and flywheel (but how much should they be lightened ideally?)

Now am I missing out anything essential?
Like do the valves&springs need to get upgraded?
Pistons & crank should be fine I guess?
Maybe I should also get the head skimmed?
And get an uprated head gasket? (or just get a new standard one...)

And also, when mapping it, how high can i put the rev-limit? 7k? It's 6250rpm now..


(yes I could drop a 6-lump in, but then I can surely forget getting through MOT here...)

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 21:52
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #2
stock HG and minimum head skim possible Thumbs up

alloy crank pulley

lightened flywheel, not sure how much is safe to lighten the XU7 flywheel, its the same as a Motronic 205 gti flywheel, clutch on its own is lighter than a gti6 one Big grin


valves and springs I'd ask sandy, they may need head mods.

also, your MPG I very much doubt is purely attributed to the engine, I would imagine that the ECU temp sender or lambda are needing replacement.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 22:08
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #3
speaking of the clutch, keep it standard? or get an uprated Sachs clutch kit 'here'
(exedy and luk only have replacements)

Crank pulley same as the 6? (can't find much for the 1.8)

About the mpg, I may need to remark that I have 2 lambdas (both just plugged into the decat) not sure if that could be related...
Where can I find the ecu temp sender?

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:37
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #4
lambda issues with a decat may not help Doh I'd get the ecu codes checked.

ECU temp sender is the same as a gti6, green one on the thermostat housing.

the XU7JP4 uses the same pulley as the gti6 IIRC.

Clutch I think would be fine on them, though I'm not certain at what levels they need uprating.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:03
c.a.r.

Seasoned Pro

Location: Stevenage

Registered: 27 Jun 2008

Posts: 2,211

Status: Offline

Post #5
Similar spec to the 1.8 I have in the Cab (previously jcphat's)

The 1.8 runs more power with the standard manifolds, there is no proven gain to be made from adding them, and Asim's 306 ran less than standard at an RR recently with this setup.

Also, the cams from the 6 don't benefit the 1.8 in a great way. They'd be great with a remap, but on standard they have no power (can't rely on the torque the 2.0 would have, since you're 200cc down) and the power really kicks in at 3,300rpm, it's incredibly noticeable (on a motorway in 4th, for example). The 1.8 will only rev to 6k or so, so not actually making full use of that 7,250 redline the cams are used to in a GTi6.

All in all, the 1.8 is the most reliable engine they put in a 306 (no common problems) but they suffer all manner of problems when you start playing with them.

If you're going to do it, put an XU10J4RS in. It really is an all-or-nothing thing, since you'll compromise something by adding GTi6 parts.

Edit- lightened flywheel might also cause you trouble, they can make a GTi6 stall depressing the clutch as the rotating mass is lower, so with a smaller displacement engine I could imagine the problem being exacerbated. Or I could be talking from my arse again.

________________________________________

'99 1.8 XS - Sold
'00 GTi6 - Killed by armco
'01 Cabriolet 1.8 - Sold
'96 Eunos Roadster 1.8 Import
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:20
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #6
dragoon wrote:

(yes I could drop a 6-lump in, but then I can surely forget getting through MOT here...)

Wink

no steering lock either with a 1.8 LOL


remap is something that will be done anyhow obviously, so I'm not worrying about the cams..

Also I've been digging through the forum for a while, and from what I've read the 6' pieces do give some gain..
(already running the exhaust manifold and it drives better, probably a slight gain in power aswell... the standard 1.8 manifold is crap as you probably have seen Smile )

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:27
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #7
I think this graph of a gti6 head cams and manifolds, and a map to suit, disproves your theory about there being no gains from 10J4RS parts not giving gains.

its 163 bhp and 167 Nm, its over 160Nm from 3700 onwards to peak Big grin

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:35
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #8
lol and 7750 rpm

Is that from a 1.8 with the mods I listed? Hyper Superman

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:37
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #9
hats a 100% stock bottom end, with a gti6 top end complete and a mapped ECU.

a ported xu7jp4 will give very similar if not better results from what I have heard from Sandy Brown as there's so much material to work with.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:39
jcphat

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the day room, Nurse!

Registered: 22 Feb 2008

Posts: 1,061

Status: Offline

Post #10
C.A.R. is right about my former car- the exhaust manifold does make a worthwhile difference but the inlet and cams need a re-map to work usefully. The crank pulley is worth it Rich_w's is a great mod- you save around a kilo and have some of the lightened flywheel effect for little effort. The 1.8 engine is a lot lighter than the iron block 6 unit and Sandy advised me that the 135hp 2.0 litre head gives a very decent flow- it was on my list if I hadn't sold the car. To fix the flow on the 1.8 head is much more expensive and while he has had one done by a wizard called Shillibeer (IIRC) it is not a well documented job. You would be looking for a developer not just a machinist.
Re-mapping of the 1.8 ecu is not well established as far as I know- and unlocked 6 one would be a potential solution.
Have a look at Dixons race car thread to see what a 1.8 can do (220bhp).
C.A.R- Dragoon cant do the 6 transplant EU regs in continental Europe stuff engine swaps!! I have seen posts elsewhere suggesting they may outlaw them here.

Just seen Welshpugs Dyno graphs.Ninja Gosh!!
Who needs a great big boat anchor with a gearbox which stops you going round corners!!

________________________________________

New Forum same high quality intellectual debate!
Team Zimmerô
Posted 4th Mar 2010 at 23:46
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #11
Mmmm, that combined with a lighter gearbox, engine and car...
Something tells me that that car may be faster than a 6 [/opens can of worms]

-somebody get me a bucket for my drool-

the remap: I've found a company that is able to do the 1.8 xsara ecu's (so same as the 306) IF it's a bosch (not the magnetti or sagem shit) and i've got both a bosch and magnetti laying around so I'll try those first..
(my second option was getting a piggyback)

the head: get a good developer or use an xsi head, got it Wink

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 00:00
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #12
Thumbs up

ditch those heavy wheels and it'll be faster Wink

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 00:15
jcphat

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the day room, Nurse!

Registered: 22 Feb 2008

Posts: 1,061

Status: Offline

Post #13
Rich_w is more or less giving away the crank pulleys now -less than O/E ones and pure engineering! My first real mod on my old car and an absolute cracker!

________________________________________

New Forum same high quality intellectual debate!
Team Zimmerô
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 00:53
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #14
stupid idea probably but lightening the cam-pulley's any good?

since I've sourced some gti cams (only 65000km) but still need the pulley's Smile
(no need to use new cams? right... they cost like 640

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 01:06
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #15
I wouldn't try and lighten the original pulleys, I have seen standard ones break, you will wither need standard gti6 (or two xsi exhaust pulleys IIRC) or aftermarket alloy pulleys.

used cams in good condition will be fine Smile

if youre going for a re-map anyway you could get PeterT to regrind the cams for more power+torque...

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 01:12
jcphat

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the day room, Nurse!

Registered: 22 Feb 2008

Posts: 1,061

Status: Offline

Post #16
6 cam pulleys are essential- I doubt you will get enough weight off them to make any difference. Aftermarket ones are a pricey low gain possibility.

________________________________________

New Forum same high quality intellectual debate!
Team Zimmerô
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 01:17
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 12,828

Status: Offline

Post #17
There may be power/torque to be had messing about with advancing the 6 cams as well. Be very careful though.

Was that dyno graph from Powerstation Mei?

________________________________________

Nothing to see here
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 04:48
c.a.r.

Seasoned Pro

Location: Stevenage

Registered: 27 Jun 2008

Posts: 2,211

Status: Offline

Post #18
How would I go about getting the 1.8 engine mapped up then?

Simple case of buying a Gti6 ecu? What about the sensors the 1.8 doesn't have? (CPS for example?)

And how much would I be looking at for it? I'd be very interested in getting it done at some point to see what it can make.

________________________________________

'99 1.8 XS - Sold
'00 GTi6 - Killed by armco
'01 Cabriolet 1.8 - Sold
'96 Eunos Roadster 1.8 Import
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 04:54
joevts

Senior User

Location: barnsley

Registered: 21 May 2008

Posts: 608

Status: Offline

Post #19
dragoon wrote:
Mmmm, that combined with a lighter gearbox, engine and car...
Something tells me that that car may be faster than a 6 [/opens can of worms]

-somebody get me a bucket for my drool-



yeah now imagine that in a 309 Love
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 05:13
asim_pug306

Senior User

Location: Bradford

Registered: 26 Aug 2009

Posts: 933

Status: Offline

Post #20
c.a.r. wrote:
How would I go about getting the 1.8 engine mapped up then?

Simple case of buying a Gti6 ecu? What about the sensors the 1.8 doesn't have? (CPS for example?)

And how much would I be looking at for it? I'd be very interested in getting it done at some point to see what it can make.



+1. I know for a fact that the mods have helped this car breathe better than standard even if the power hasn't actually increased. Really want to know more about how to get a proper map for it now..

________________________________________

'01 Astor Grey GTi6

'99 Cherry Rallye
Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 13:54
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #21
adam b wrote:
There may be power/torque to be had messing about with advancing the 6 cams as well. Be very careful though.

Was that dyno graph from Powerstation Mei?


not that I know of but it is the same format isn't it LOL

Its Craig28 off 205gtidrivers (craig Niven) he's got OKG too (Jon M 's old Mi16 205 shell)

XU7J4RS thread linky

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 5th Mar 2010 at 15:31
asim_pug306

Senior User

Location: Bradford

Registered: 26 Aug 2009

Posts: 933

Status: Offline

Post #22
Does the GTi-6 head fit straight onto the xu7jp4 block?

________________________________________

'01 Astor Grey GTi6

'99 Cherry Rallye
Posted 6th Mar 2010 at 04:41
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,822

Status: Offline

Post #23
have a guess LOL

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 6th Mar 2010 at 04:47
asim_pug306

Senior User

Location: Bradford

Registered: 26 Aug 2009

Posts: 933

Status: Offline

Post #24
No?

________________________________________

'01 Astor Grey GTi6

'99 Cherry Rallye
Posted 6th Mar 2010 at 04:48
dragoon

Seasoned Pro

Location: Ghent - Belgium

Registered: 30 Dec 2008

Posts: 1,071

Status: Offline

Post #25
LOL plug&play if I understanded it correctly..

But the xsi head should be a better option?
(unless you get the 1.8 head ported Wink )

________________________________________

Team Wheelwhore
Team Limited Edition

Astor 306 Francorchamps RIP
Virtual Blue 208 GTi

quote:
I Love this place. So many illiterate deluded fool's acting 'ard . . . and so many literate intelligent people to rip them apart and knock them back down again . . . ahh Cool
Posted 6th Mar 2010 at 22:29

Pages (2): [1] 2

All times are GMT. The time is now 02:26

The Peugeot GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club - ©2024 all rights reserved.

Please Note: The views and opinions found herein are those of individuals, and not of The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club or any individuals involved.
No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on, or in relation to, this website. Please see our updated privacy policy.