displaying posts 1 to 22 of 22

Author Subject: Another tapping engine
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi everyone,
I’ve just registered as I’ve bought gti 6 that needs a bit of work. It’s got invoices for a reco head 20,000km ago after a broken tensioner bolt but apparently its been noisy in the top end ever since. I’ve pulled the head off to have a look and the valves look to be sealing when I put brake cleaner into the ports so I assume the valves aren’t bent? I’ll strip the head and have a better look. It also looks like it’s got aftermarket lifters? I’ve read these aren’t great. How do you tell for sure?
The main things I want to know at the moment are the specs for valve stem height when installed (maybe they were set up incorrectly by the reconditioner)? and how I can measure how much has been taken off the head?
Thanks.
Posted 18th May 2021 at 12:31
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #2
Guarantee it’s a bent valve or a damaged guide, there’s various ways to tell but I’ll almost guarantee you won’t find it by looking with the naked eye. The search function is useful at the top of the page or I’ll try write up my own way of finding bent valves later when I have more time.

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Posted 18th May 2021 at 12:49
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #3
could still be a bent valve, the double springs will pull a mildly bent valve closed

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Posted 18th May 2021 at 18:11
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #4
Ok thanks for the replies. I’ll strip the head and see how the valves look.
So is the tapping caused by excessive clearance that the lifter can’t take up or is it from the valve not closing on the seat squarely?
Posted 18th May 2021 at 21:58
S8-Tom

Regular

Location: Chichester

Registered: 02 Feb 2018

Posts: 327

Status: Offline

Post #5
Gti666 wrote:
Ok thanks for the replies. I’ll strip the head and see how the valves look.
So is the tapping caused by excessive clearance that the lifter can’t take up or is it from the valve not closing on the seat squarely?


You'll struggle to find anything from a visual inspection. Ideally you'll want to put each valve in a lathe, spin it up and check the run out with a dti.

The lifters can be tappy until they fill with oil and the clearance is taken up. This is usually more evident, I've found, after an oil change or if the car's been sat a while.

If the tap persists/gets worse when the engine's warmed up then it's likely to be a bent valve not closing on the seat squarely.

Also, it's worth checking that the spark plugs are tight as they can be loose and rattle/tick.

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Posted 19th May 2021 at 09:56
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #6
I’m waiting on a new spring compressor to get the valves out and I can probably get access to a lathe in a week.
Does anyone have specs on the installed valve stem height and a spec for head thickness?
Thanks again.
Posted 21st May 2021 at 02:54
S8-Tom

Regular

Location: Chichester

Registered: 02 Feb 2018

Posts: 327

Status: Offline

Post #7
Head thickness is 'H'




Not sure if this gives the detail on the valves you need

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Posted 21st May 2021 at 07:40
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #8
not sure on the specific installed height, but I do recall my piper double springs went in on standard retainers and standard valves after only light work to the seats and no shims!

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 21st May 2021 at 08:37
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #9
Thanks for those diagrams. The first one will definitely be helpful.
I’ve only taken the inlet valves out at this point and 6 are bent! I put a torch down the port and turned the stem and they’re definitely bent. I’ve never seen a car with over 200 psi comp and no leaks when brake cleaner is sprayed in the ports with bent valves. I guess they only have 6mm stems and the double springs must have plenty of seat pressure.
Posted 28th May 2021 at 08:49
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #10
All the exhaust valves look ok but I need to clean things up and check properly. The head thickness looks ok too going off the above diagram.
The valve guides look to have a bit of wear.
Does anyone know the process needed to replace them? I assume you have to warm the head up to a certain temperature and press them out?
Thanks.
Posted 31st May 2021 at 00:46
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #11
depends if you want to replace them whole or put inserts

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 31st May 2021 at 14:56
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #12
heat would make it worse! they are just pressed out, press new ones in and line bore/hone to suit

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 31st May 2021 at 14:57
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #13
Thanks for that. I’ll try to measure the clearance and go from there.
Posted 1st Jun 2021 at 04:06
Gti666

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Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

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Post #14
Does anyone know the the valve lift at tdc for standard cams? Also 5* atdc would be handy if you have any specs. I’m just trying to figure out piston to valve clearance.
Thanks.
Posted 13th Jul 2021 at 11:32
S8-Tom

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Location: Chichester

Registered: 02 Feb 2018

Posts: 327

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Post #15
Gti666 wrote:
Does anyone know the the valve lift at tdc for standard cams? Also 5* atdc would be handy if you have any specs. I’m just trying to figure out piston to valve clearance.
Thanks.


There's a useful post on that here

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Posted 14th Jul 2021 at 11:43
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #16
Thanks for that. I read through it but I didn’t find a spec on standard cams.
Does anyone know how much clearance a stock engine has when new?
Posted 15th Jul 2021 at 13:38
Gti666

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Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

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Post #17
I spoke to Peter t from Sydney today and he said a standard cam has about.035” @ tdc. He also says he isn’t doing cams at the moment as his cam grinder has sold up? It’s a pity as he did cams that had low lift at tdc to suit standard engines.
Posted 23rd Jul 2021 at 11:04
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

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Post #18
anyone else do cams your side of the world? I know most of the uk based companies will grind a profile to spec from a blank, I'd imagine late xu/ew blanks to be quite rare in Australia maybe?!

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 24th Jul 2021 at 08:41
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #19
Yes I think blanks are hard to come by. You’d need the masters too. I called Clive cams which I’ve used before and they’ve never done a xu10j4rs. I’m happy to put the standard cams back in for now but still wanted to check piston to valve clearance. How close do people normally run these engines? I normally go for .080” but I don’t have it on this engine with a standard thickness head and a 1.1mm head gasket. That’s also before I look at lift @ 5*atdc etc.
Posted 25th Jul 2021 at 12:58
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #20
your post amused/baffled me, an aussie using imperial for valve clearances on a French car, when you use Km for distance and speed LOL


0.080 is 2.0mm I think, far too much for a standard piston especially if it has been skimmed and a standard gasket.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 25th Jul 2021 at 18:08
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #21
Yes I’m a bit all over the shop. The cam grinders talk imperial and my dial indicator is imperial so I’m always converting back and forth. Also the engine books I have are English so they’re imperial too.
It is a French car though and they invented the metric system so I’m sure it’d be better if I stuck to that.
On another note, does anyone know what the hydraulic lifter preload should be? 040”? 1mm?
Thanks.
Posted 26th Jul 2021 at 14:06
Gti666

Newbie

Location: Melbourne

Registered: 18 May 2021

Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Post #22
I thought I better finish this car as it has been a year. I put in 8 new inlet valves and cut three angle seats with a cutting tool from India. It was slow work. Then I tested the springs and shimmed them to get the seat pressure right. (80 lbs seat 200 lbs @ 10mm) I also had to watch for spring bind clearance so some were slightly less than 80.
After fitting the head I pinned the cams and crank and fitted a new belt kit/water pump. I was worried about the piston/valve clearance so I fitted a degree wheel and measured inlet lift (standard cams).
@ tdc =.4mm
6*atdc=.9mm
10*atdc=1.2mm
This is a lot less lift than I expected. This leaves me 1.5mm clearance so it should be fine.
I couldn’t ever find this lift info when I was trying work out the valve clearance at tdc with the head off.
Hopefully it’s useful to someone and hopefully this thing starts up ok after all this time!
Posted 16th Jun 2022 at 12:22

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