displaying posts 1 to 14 of 14

Author Subject: Piston rings and honing
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #1
Hi I'm going to rebuild my engine my question is when fitting new piston rings would you advise a quick honing on the bores. My bores have very very faint vertical lines you cannot feel them with your finger nail but they are slightly there any advice on this would be much appreciated. I've looked though the process of the honing but I haven't read about anyone doing it on there 6 or rallye on the forum

Thanks in advance

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http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=163869
Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 20:02
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

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Post #2
Yeah, you definitely want to get some sort of cross hatch back in the bores before fitting the new pistons. The cross hatch helps the rings to bed in which is vitally important if you want you're engine to be reliable long term, make full power, and not drink oil.

Ideally you want something along the lines of a flexhone for the best finish, but there expensive for a one off use. If I were you I'd use one of the machinemart/sealey honing tools to get a reasonable cross hatch on the bores, unless you can find someone nearby with a flexhone.

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Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 21:15
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #3
Thanks for the reply I've looked at various honing methods and believe the flexhone is the best method and I can get access to one. I'm pretty capable of doing the work it's just I've never fitted piston rings before or built a bottom end before but I'm sure I can do it. Is there any advice you could give me after the build like do i need to run a different oil for the 1st few 100 miles to let things bed in and the a good quality oil after etc

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Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 21:29
prism7guy

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Location: DoncastAAAAARGH

Registered: 13 Jan 2008

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Post #4
I honed my block a couple of years ago when i had a few issues and needed the pistons pocketing. The hone i used i borrowed from the local machine shop that did all my head work, it was the type that has loads of stone bobbles sticking out from the centre shaft (unsure of the technical terms, had a few bevvies Laugh)
I used loads of WD40 down each bore before i did it and plenty on the honing tool, with a mate spraying more as I was honing. The trick was to have the drill relatively slow and go up and down pretty quick to leave a nice cross hatch.
We left the crank in as the block was still in the car at the time with the gearbox still attached, so we covered the crank journals for each cylinder to stop anything getting on them.
Afterwards clean each bore meticulously and wipe down each crank journal to ensure theres no crap left behind.

I was going to check the ring gaps for mine before installing but my machine shop told me that they'd got each one and tested it in-house on another 86mm bore engine to make sure they were right for me.

Once the engine was back together I used some running in oil for 500 miles (I ran mine in driving it to the nurburgring LOL) then dropped that and stuck my usual Fuchs Pro-S 10w50 in.
I read that when bedding the rings in it's best to not just stick to one speed, and not rev it excessively high, so as i was driving along i'd give it some wide open throttle up to around 4-5k then stick it in 6th and let it slowly come back down the revs. I read many contradictory methods but went with the above one in the end. It's up to you to double check whether you want to use the method i used or not.

I did all this a couple of years ago, the engine is still in one piece and has done many laps of the nordschleife, a few thousand road miles and multiple trackdays since with no real issues to report.

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Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 22:49
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #5
I will take on you advise thats pretty much the answer I'm looking for I will also be leaving my engine in the car with the crank in place as you described. I'm looking at a rebuild kit that pug1off do to complete overhall the engine its priced at £425 now I'm not a rich man unfortunately but it seems like a good price to me but I'm unsure of quality of the kit but.

https://peugeot-tuning-parts.co.uk/~cn49882a/306-gti6-engine-rebuild-kit-peugeot-xu10j4rs-rallye.html

I will be sending the cylinder head to machine shop for a overhall so hopefully by the end il have a properly sorted engine to match my respray on the rallye

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Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 23:26
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #6
By the looks of the part on the pug1off kit it looks like the 137 belt set up which I would prefer not to use as mentioned on a few threads on here

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Posted 21st Apr 2019 at 23:31
phillipm

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Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #7
Some scotchbrite pads wrapped around an expanding leg hone does pretty well as a top hone in a pinch too Whistle

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Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 00:02
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #8
Do you mean the 3 leg type hone with a scotch pad wrapped around it

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Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 07:40
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

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Post #9
I buy some cheap thin oil from Asda for running in. As mentioned vary the revs and the load with lots of full throttle as this creates pressure behind the rings and forces them into the cylinder wall which helps them bed in.

Personally I'd take the engine out to do the work, that way you can get it all properly cleaned before reassembling it. If you are checking bearing clearances and stuff too then that'll be hard work doing it in the car.

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Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring
Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 08:18
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

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Post #10
Make sure you use a mineral oil for running in, a semi or full synthetic is a big no no as it ‘arrests’ the breaking in process of the rings.

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Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 08:27
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #11
Cool I very much appreciate all the feed back and is the reason I love this forum its helped out alot over the 12 years of ownership on the rallye. I have thought about taking the lump out the car and maybe even sending it out to a proper engine builder. What would you say roughly to the cost of a full overhall bottom end mainly as I can deal with the cylinder head easily

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Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 09:31
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

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Post #12
Wouldn't be that much but if you're interested then do it yourself. You'll learn something and save some money at the same time. There's not a massive amount involved really. Strip it, check all the journals and bores to make sure there within tolerance. Give it a really good steam jet wash and scrub all the oil ways etc.

Then rebuild everything checking clearances with plastigauge or a mic and bore gauge as you go.

Be careful with the main bearing cap bolts, the specified torque reading is not enough!

Personally I'd say the bottom end is easier than the cylinder head unless machining work is required.

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring
Posted 22nd Apr 2019 at 22:47
lee306rallye

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Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #13
Ok cool thanks Pete I'm actually looking forward to the project once I get going on it. the cylinder head is already off I just need to play with the bottom end now and get it stripped

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Posted 23rd Apr 2019 at 09:12
miles

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Location: Ringwood

Registered: 28 Dec 2002

Posts: 3,433

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Post #14
Every block I have tried honing all have ended up scrap due to the bore wear, only 1 I did manage to use was my Race engine which had only done 45k before I used it and then it was just about right for forged pistons so be wary as it may lead to sleeving or overboreing it
I can supply all the rebuild parts at a better price than above as well, they use the same supplier as I do

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Posted 30th Apr 2019 at 23:11

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