Post #76
To get back to those 0.5mm off the restrictor, what figures are we talking about? Maybe 5bhp? Will the base map have any trouble with it?
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 marco gti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Troisvierges Registered: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,350 Status: Offline |
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 Posted 24th May 2016 at 16:30
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #77
marco gti6 wrote: To get back to those 0.5mm off the restrictor, what figures are we talking about? Maybe 5bhp? Will the base map have any trouble with it? Depends what diameter restrictor you have in the first place.... when I bought my charger setup second hand from Smegal it was one of the early setups and Rich had supplied him with 2 sizes of ring. I now have the larger one in mine. I forget the measurement though tbh. ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
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Posted 24th May 2016 at 19:55
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro  Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #78
0.5mm is more like 10 BHP. You would need to dyno your car and trace AFR to make sure it's not running lean and is safe if at all possible. This is because there are lots of other variables (beyond the restrictor ring itself) that can influence air fuel ratio. This includes exhaust, camshaft timing, intercooler setup, condition of fuel system etc etc.  ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 25th May 2016 at 02:37
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marco gti6
Seasoned Pro Location: Troisvierges Registered: 09 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,350 Status: Offline |
Post #79
Cheers for the helpful insight mate, glad to see you still lurking around here |
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Posted 25th May 2016 at 05:28
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #80
Got afr print outs on mine last year and was all very safe I've been planning to open up the restrictor a small amount for some time lol. Only as you say 0.5mm or so. I'm still tempted by the idea of going for a medium boost with around 300bhp using an over thick head gasket on standard bottom end apart from ARP rod bolts.... I'll see how my finances are next year I think..... ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
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Posted 25th May 2016 at 22:23
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manthos
Seasoned Pro  Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #81
I'm very interested in the sound of the medium boost option too it sounds like the best all round setup. what bhp is yours currently Armzsc6? ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 25th May 2016 at 23:05
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #82
On a very conservative rolling road 250bhp and 200 ftlb torque though others would say higher. 3 other standard engined 6's made about 160-163 bhp when they has decent breathing mods and exhausts but not a lot else. One had a previous print out from somewhere else of around 175bhp.Mates fabia vrs had shown 185bhp on 2 other rolling roads one being bolt on hub dynos at Abbey motorsport which is meant to be accurate. On the rolling road we did mine on his showed 177bhp iirc. Was definitely lower than both the other 2 and that was after he had turned the boost up a fraction more in his map so I'm anywhere between 250 and 260 really. Main thing I wanted was to see improvement over the last time when I had the smaller 2" pipework and low boost size cooler also a 2 1/4" exhaust. On rollers that have a reputation for slightly over reading it previously made 240 and 244.5bhp 188 ftlb. Also to check the AFR was good. So I'm happy it did improve a little but the main thing is the torque is higher lower down which you can feel on the road big time. I also have a massively bored out and knife edged throttle body on mine which tbh probably makes almost no difference as its not mapped and may be making it run a bit lean a part throttle so don't think it's staying on there. I see other people claimed higher bhp from a standard low boost with high boost pipework and cooler in the past but I'm yet to find one that goes as well as mine.... other places like to chuck out high figures to keep people happy I guess lol. What size cooler and pipes do you have on yours Manthos? ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 00:21
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #83
armzsc6 wrote: Got afr print outs on mine last year and was all very safe I've been planning to open up the restrictor a small amount for some time lol. Only as you say 0.5mm or so. I'm still tempted by the idea of going for a medium boost with around 300bhp using an over thick head gasket on standard bottom end apart from ARP rod bolts.... I'll see how my finances are next year I think..... Don't even bother opening up the bottom end to change rod bolts. The loading on the rod bolts is function of RPM, not power. I personally don't rate the ARP rod bolts that replace the OEM bolts. One pulled it's thread when I was torquing it up, surprisingly, lost confidence in them! When I was first developing this conversion, I did a high boost on OEM rods and the bolts were fine, so I wouldn't bother changing them unless you plan to rev it past around 7,800 (which there's not much point doing). ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 00:59
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armzsc6
Seasoned Pro Location: Crowborough Registered: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 3,445 Status: Offline |
Post #84
rich_w wrote: armzsc6 wrote: Got afr print outs on mine last year and was all very safe I've been planning to open up the restrictor a small amount for some time lol. Only as you say 0.5mm or so. I'm still tempted by the idea of going for a medium boost with around 300bhp using an over thick head gasket on standard bottom end apart from ARP rod bolts.... I'll see how my finances are next year I think..... Don't even bother opening up the bottom end to change rod bolts. The loading on the rod bolts is function of RPM, not power. I personally don't rate the ARP rod bolts that replace the OEM bolts. One pulled it's thread when I was torquing it up, surprisingly, lost confidence in them! When I was first developing this conversion, I did a high boost on OEM rods and the bolts were fine, so I wouldn't bother changing them unless you plan to rev it past around 7,800 (which there's not much point doing). Considering that would be over revving the charger and getting a bit close to valve float I'd leave it at 7650rpm. Funnily enough a few years ago mate of mine was building a fully forged bottom end for his Z20LET astra capable of around 500bhp using wosner pistons and decent rods can't remember what make off the top of my head.... but as he torqued up one of the big end caps one of them didn't even get close to torque and stripped completely.... From then on they were known as cheese bolts and cheese rods  ________________________________________ Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p 12x 306's owned so far Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist. Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 07:26
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #85
I have high boost cooler and im not sure on diameter of pipework but I would assume it's high boost to go with the cooler. what else have you done to yours to see 250 260 because mine only produced 232bhp it has a very healthy curve. The only thing I can think of is as I said the exhaust is choking it up but you produced more with 2.25 exhaust ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 07:53
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #86
 can you guess what pipework that is size wise? ________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 07:57
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #87
manthos wrote: can you guess what pipework that is size wise? That's 2.5" ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 08:25
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #88
Is 2.5 high boost?________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 09:08
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #89
as its restricted to 38mm, why does it have 63mm pipe?! get a turbo on it, you'll make 330 bhp through a 38mm restrictor  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 11:40
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roland rat
Yeeeah Rat fans!  Location: Swansea Registered: 29 Nov 2006 Posts: 22,282 Status: Offline |
Post #90
manthos wrote: I have high boost cooler and im not sure on diameter of pipework but I would assume it's high boost to go with the cooler. what else have you done to yours to see 250 260 because mine only produced 232bhp it has a very healthy curve. The only thing I can think of is as I said the exhaust is choking it up but you produced more with 2.25 exhaust |I really think your missing the point here. It was estimated at 230 bhp with the cat and standard system when I took it for the Rolling road session @ Got Boost After I knew it was all good I fitted the Magnex de-cat and Jetex System. Now the only clear way to compare before and after figures are to have the car Rolling roaded once again by Got Boost as we all know that different rollers will read different figures Also I'd rather know that I had an healthly car/curve than chasing BHP figures |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 11:45
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manthos
Seasoned Pro Location: Norwich Registered: 29 Apr 2009 Posts: 1,966 Status: Offline |
Post #91
I agree I am more happy that I have a healthy curve but I would like to see 250bhp________________________________________ Team SUPERCHARGED I LIVE FOR THE 306 Old Project thread Clicky: [url =http://www.306gti6.com]click here[/url] remove the space between [url = |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 12:34
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #92
welshpug! wrote: as its restricted to 38mm, why does it have 63mm pipe?! get a turbo on it, you'll make 330 bhp through a 38mm restrictor I thought you were more intelligent than this Mei  It's for the same reason the Group A and Group N cars dont run 32mm or 34mm boost pipes, despite having restrictors this size! Saying 'put a turbo on it and you will get 330 BHP with a 38mm restrictor' is also a pointless comment. I suspect you won't on a like for like setup. The relationship between restrictor size and engine output comes down to the volumetric efficiency of the engine. I suspect you won't get 330 BHP from a restricted turbo setup with out doing things to improve the volumetric efficiency, be it exhaust, cams, inlet, compression ratio etc etc. Manthos' car also has 63mm pipe to future proof it for a high boost upgrade. ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 15:25
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fatlapit
Seasoned Pro  Location: STOCKSFIELD Registered: 02 Nov 2010 Posts: 3,040 Status: Offline |
Post #93
Supercharging and turbo are night and day________________________________________ |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 15:35
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #94
welshpug! wrote: get a turbo on it, you'll make 330 bhp through a 38mm restrictor Not without a s**tload of work and a very fancy restrictor you won't, which is kinda completely missing the point of the restrictor on the S/C cars... ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 15:36
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rich_w
Seasoned Pro Location: Havant, Hampshire Registered: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 5,412 Status: Offline |
Post #95
phillipm wrote: welshpug! wrote: get a turbo on it, you'll make 330 bhp through a 38mm restrictor Not without a s**tload of work and a very fancy restrictor you won't, which is kinda completely missing the point of the restrictor on the S/C cars... Exactly, seeing as we are wanting to restrict power to a safe level for the stock internals! As noted it also comes down to the restrictor design. The low boost restrictor is very basic, as that's all it needs to be. On the C38 cars we use a much more complex restrictor/diffuser, where CFD was considered as part of the design. ________________________________________ Contact Details:rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk 07732 822546 |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 15:40
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #96
I do think you could make a low-boost car still on the restrictor with a lot better midrange if you put the effort into the pipework and exhaust mind, rather than most just chasing peak numbers. But who wants to spend money and not get more horsies to brag about down the pub?  ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 15:54
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #97
I'm not chasing bhp myself, its make whatever it makes, but I ant it to have a decent midrange so it'll actually accelerate rather than waiting for all the fun to happen at the top.also  ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 16:06
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #98
why not just run a smaller charger and no restrictor?________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 16:05
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #99
Because then you get even less midrange.________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 16:23
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #100
ohhh.derp. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th May 2016 at 16:24
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