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Author Subject: misfire
aaron6

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Location: On the sofa in maidstone

Registered: 16 May 2006

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Post #26
Which sensor was it?


I just had to drive it. Was doing 50 mph gently applied throttle and it wouldn't pull at all. In fact it was slowing down. It was backfiring a little. Dipped the clutch and it died. Restarted it and the car fired up. But it sounds quieter and has less power. I wonder if it just shagged my cat.

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Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:00
Cjwatson27

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Location: Oxford

Registered: 17 Sep 2013

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Post #27
I was trying to think is it the green one a temp sensor is it the green one. I think the garage said its was acting like a choke and causing it to run rich. Mine would only drive if you kept the revs right up and kept hunting like it was trying to stall. Think your plugs would confirm it if it's over fuelling

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Old pugs don't die they just get faster
Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:06
Cjwatson27

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Post #28
Cjwatson27 wrote:
I was trying to think is it the green one a temp sensor . I think the garage said its was acting like a choke and causing it to run rich. Mine would only drive if you kept the revs right up and kept hunting like it was trying to stall. Think your plugs would confirm it if it's over fuelling

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Old pugs don't die they just get faster
Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:07
aaron6

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Post #29
The plugs looked okay when they came out.

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Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:14
aaron6

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Post #30
I have a brand new green temperature sensor to try in that case. Although according to pug planet it was reading the right temps etc.

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See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:19
aaron6

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Post #31
I think it's f**ked.

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See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:19
Cjwatson27

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Post #32
aaron6 wrote:
The plugs looked okay when they came out.


From what I remember mine were a week old and they looked very fooked

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Old pugs don't die they just get faster
Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 13:32
aaron6

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Post #33
They might be after this last drive. Something failed. LOL

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See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 14:15
armzsc6

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Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

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Post #34
The green temp sensor is working perfectly. It shows the same temp as the dash gauge does when you look on the laptop. Also tried unplugging it the other day and made it run a lot worse. Same as unplugging any of the other sensors did.

Plugs were all even milky coffee colour on the tips as they should be. No obvious defects or chase lines down the side of the coils from arcing or anything. I will say the old lambda sensor was a bit sooty and black though but no idea how old it was. This cars always sailed through emissions tests when I've done MOT'S on it previously.

The two times I've had it running well for a good while has been after the battery has been off for several hours. Then started and run on idle till warm then driven normally. It's remained perfectly fine for at least half hour or more. Aaron came by after work on Wednesday evening and I'd had it running for ages after fixing the aircon and replacing the last few bits. Was running sweet. I then took it up the road for a short run and it was spot on. Aaron then drove it 10 mins later and it was stalling popping banging full on misfire at low revs under load....
It's like the ecu learns its parameters fine then suddenly looses the ability to work the coils properly.

No amount of loom wiggling anywhere seems to provoke it either and no codes also suggests to me that the loom is fine. Disconnecting any one of the Injectors or coils produces a noticeable good miss on that cylinder so all 4 have some from of fuel and spark.

To try a soft unlocked ecu do I have to disconnect just the immobiliser pickup ring or the immobiliser ecu as well then fit the ecu and start normally? Never had to mess about with soft unlocked ones before.... I would think disconnect immobiliser ecu?

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 15:41
pug_306

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Location: Great Hockham

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Post #35
Yes buddy just the immobiliser ecu ;-)

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205 Turbo 340bhp
Posted 25th Mar 2016 at 15:46
armzsc6

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Post #36
Ever so joyous update on this.... I told Aaron to take the car and try it out with some injector cleaner in and see how it goes. Wasn't long before it messed about again and massively backfired a few times. Then he said it was gutless and the exhaust had become really quiet which is most unlike a magnex LOL

So we both suspected the backfiring was happening pre cat and it's probably imploded the cat and part blocked it... yup... removed the cat and it's cracked it internally in a load of places and blocked it up so off came that for now and on went a decat pipe. Now obviously louder but no restrictions in the exhaust and no chance of ruining another genuine cat.... I also removed the plugs again. This time they were sooted up and black.... Maybe because the cat had blocked so wasn't getting enough air through to fuel ratio or because it's started overfueling massively hence the backfires. So replaced the plugs with brand new BKR6EK.

Me and Aaron had a tinker this evening.... thought we would change more bits we have spares for already. Aaron had a brand new in bag green ecu coolant sensor. I believed the current one to be fine as it's reading fine on PP but may as well try as it controls the fueling. Also changed the knock sensor which was a bit of a fiddle bit managed it with magnets and wobble sockets and a lot of swearing without taking the inlet off! Wouldn't have stood a chance if it had a helmholtz resonator on the inlet lol.

Car ran fine on tick over fine on first road test... turned it off waited 20 mins or so and ran again and almost instantly messed about as per. Misfiring under load cutting out misfiring or flooding itself when you blip the throttle hard from idle.

Back to square one. Battery off changed injectors and rail for spares. Ran lovely for a good 20 mins and a decent length road test only one minor splutter then perfect again.

Switched off for 10 mins or so restarted and wasn't too long before it misfired again.


So... ecu? Seems fine when reset and until it's turned off and left and it's been like that for some time.... possibly even the whole time. Once ecu had learned all its parameters and been turned off it runs like s**t.....

We have a soft unlocked ecu borrowed from demondriverdan so I'll try that tomorrow lunch.


If anyone has any other ideas please feel free to SHOUT Crazy

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 30th Mar 2016 at 23:42
3rd time lucky

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Post #37
Seems a good time to charge it.

The ammount of time you've spent on it, you could have boosted it.

________________________________________

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Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 09:17
aaron6

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Post #38
No point. It'd only misfire. LOL

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Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 10:12
aaron6

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Post #39
Sad

Come on people. Any ideas?

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See the sheer power and might of the lesser known burrowing owl.



Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 10:12
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Location: guildford

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Post #40
Fuel pressure regulator have you checked what fuel pressure you're getting?

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Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 10:17
armzsc6

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Post #41
superchargedblack1997gti6 wrote:
Fuel pressure regulator have you checked what fuel pressure you're getting?


Nope as don't have a gauge to connect on but have changed the pressure reg and rail and the pump seems to work well sounds normal p**ses out if the pipes are off and primes properly etc.

When Aaron's driven it he's said it goes as well as it should right through the rev range while it's not messing about. And when it is its still fine top end flat out just awful low down.

Removed the cam cover also and I did the belt and pump last year with all genuine pug parts using solid pully and proper timing tools etc and belt is still spot on so is tension so don't see it being belt timing. Also wouldn't be intermittent if it was timing.

I would think if it was the loom it would leave a fault codes for open or short circuit on what ever has the break but never any codes.

3 or 4 times now it's perfect after an ecu reset then once ignition off and left it f**ks about big time.

To recap it has brand new ICV lambda crank sensor green cts and multifunction relay. As well as new inlet and throttle body gaskets And swapped with spare or known good TPS, IAT, knock sensor, injectors, rail, pressure reg, map, and cam sensors.

Still the exact same fault no codes Dunno

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 10:30
superchargedblack1997gti6

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Post #42
Bad earth cables? Can't say I've come across this one before?

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Super high boost Completed, destroyer of gearboxes and 160mph club
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 11:49
armzsc6

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Post #43
superchargedblack1997gti6 wrote:
Bad earth cables? Can't say I've come across this one before?


Cleaned up both gearbox ones and where it goes to the chassis leg in 3 places. Also added an extra earth from battery to head in 4 gauge cable.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 12:07
welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #44
got for a drive with PP and see what readings you get when it cocks about.

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Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 12:17
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #45
Any luck with trying the spare ECU yet? Unsure

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 16:26
armzsc6

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Post #46
Yup did at lunch disconnected immob ecu plugs and pickup ring fired up fine ran till warm fine then switched off while I finished off a 1.6hdi cam belt job... restarted it and gradually started missing then cut out completely struggled to restart then missing a bit then cleared again.

Anyone got any matches?

Will have to do that when I get time WP but have had it cooking about whilst idling and plugged it in and my rallye running next to each other and compared readings. Only difference was the ignition timing was more advanced on Aaron's for a while then went back to normal and ran ok again.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 16:37
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #47
So, essentially then we are looking at a fault with ignition timing being up the wall, firing at incorrect intervals causing loss of power and backfiring.

I'll have a think...

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 17:04
armzsc6

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Location: Crowborough

Registered: 22 Mar 2008

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Post #48
stan_306gti6 wrote:
So, essentially then we are looking at a fault with ignition timing being up the wall, firing at incorrect intervals causing loss of power and backfiring.

I'll have a think...


Which would lead me to cam or crank sensors as they are what dictates the firing. Crank is brand new from GSF French made and same make as I have on my 6 after mine died a couple of years ago. Cam sensor we have several spare though unknown if good but if it's disconnected logs a fault straight away saying cylinder 1 detection sensor open circuit.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 17:27
mocinim

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Post #49
Any one got a circuit diagram for this

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Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 17:47
lee306rallye

Regular

Location: coleford

Registered: 10 May 2009

Posts: 344

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Post #50
Have you tried the fuel pump relay I had tick over issues due to my fuel pump relay being faulty. Mine was reving too high. Not the same issue as yours but give it a try you may be in luck the same as I was.

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http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=163869
Posted 31st Mar 2016 at 18:35

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