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Author Subject: which rear dampers for track days
hepkem

Junior User

Location: ISTANBUL

Registered: 11 Dec 2008

Posts: 52

Status: Offline

Post #1
I have KW V1 coilovers, 23.5mm TB, 30mm Hybrid ARB, Whisbone bushes, Quaife diff, 21mm VTS original front ARB..

I drive the car mostly at Istanbul Park track days and back end is pretty soft. I have replaced KW V1 rear dampers with my old B6 bilsteins but still pretty soft on the back.

I'm have several alternatives as below ;

205 Group N Challenge Bilstein Dampers
http://www.motorsport-tools.com/bilstein-peugeot-205-group-n-challenge-rear-dampers.html

Peugeot Sport Challenge Bilstein Dampers by Spoox
http://www.spoox.co.uk/en/rear-suspension/2766-peugeot-sport-gpa-205-309-gti-rear-damper-460-250.html

I read on several topics about Gaz Gold dampers, are they available as rear damper only ;
http://www.gazshocks.com/products/dampers#gazgoldpro

Maybe I can sell KW V1 kit upgrade to AST 4100 coilover series
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tuning/peugeot/peugeot-306/suspension/coilover-kits/peugeot-306-ast-4100-series-coilover-kit.html

Open to suggestions of all track experienced users Smile

________________________________________

1999 Xsara VTS ITB
Posted 13th Apr 2015 at 21:46
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

Status: Offline

Post #2
306 tarmac bilstein dampets will be closest to your spring rate on the rear.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 13th Apr 2015 at 21:55
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #3
205 grpA dampers will just about be up to it aswell, the challenges you list aren't, you'd be better with the gaz golds rather than them.

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Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 06:57
midlife

Seasoned Pro

Location: Colne, Lancashire

Registered: 13 Mar 2006

Posts: 7,544

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Post #4
Do you have solid beam mounts? It can feel bad at the back without them with uprated arb & tb's.

Cool

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Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 07:56
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

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Post #5
naah, my car feels mint thanks.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 08:16
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

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Post #6
not sure 205 stuff will be up to it btw, the 205 tarmac damping rate is 460/250, 306 tarmac is 600/300.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 10:57
hepkem

Junior User

Location: ISTANBUL

Registered: 11 Dec 2008

Posts: 52

Status: Offline

Post #7
welshpug! wrote:
306 tarmac bilstein dampets will be closest to your spring rate on the rear.


thanks for the feedback. where can I source 306 tarmac bilsteins from ?

allanallen wrote:
205 grpA dampers will just about be up to it aswell, the challenges you list aren't, you'd be better with the gaz golds rather than them.


so you recommend 205 group A. I guess they will be good fro track for very stiff for b-roads. I'll check for Gaz adjustables prices.

________________________________________

1999 Xsara VTS ITB
Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 11:45
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

Status: Offline

Post #8
try kam racing.

given the choice I would go bilstein 306, gaz were horrible compared to 205 bilstein.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 15:16
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #9
Afaik 306 billies aren't available, you'll have to speak to Bilstein themselves and have some re-valved.

Mei, Tarmac spec 205s ran 23mm bars so a higher spring rare than a 306 on 23.5mm?! 306 Tarmac cars were on 25mm + bars I was led to belive?

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Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 22:37
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

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Post #10
205 tar was 21mm not 23?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 22:40
allanallen

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Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

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Post #11
Really? I've clearly confused myself! Big grin
having used challenge, 205grpA and 306 tarmacs I'd still say the grpAs were up to track use on a 23mm bar'd 306. 306 tarmacs would be best though, could be expensive mind....

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Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 22:56
pete_rallye

Seasoned Pro

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

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Post #12
My old 306 ran 205 Bilsteins with 23mm TB and they were ace. Bilstein UK are really good too, I had my fronts revalved and they were very helpful and not at all pricey either.

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Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 23:12
Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 7,759

Status: Offline

Post #13
There was definitely a 25mm TB option for the 306 as I've still got a pair of them sitting in my kitchen! I think Peugeot Sport advertised them as 25.5mm but they're actually 1 inch bar, so 25.4mm.

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Rich
Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 23:39
devere

Senior User

Location: Saxtead

Registered: 16 Dec 2008

Posts: 810

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Post #14
allanallen wrote:
Afaik 306 billies aren't available, you'll have to speak to Bilstein themselves and have some re-valved.

Mei, Tarmac spec 205s ran 23mm bars so a higher spring rare than a 306 on 23.5mm?! 306 Tarmac cars were on 25mm + bars I was led to belive?


I used my 306 with 23.5mm bars, and on one bumpy road I thought it was going to throw me off. Took about 40mph off my top speed compared to the previous year. Needless to say I went back to 21's! 25's may be fine on something dead smooth, but I wouldnt go near them if there was a chance of a slight bump!
Posted 14th Apr 2015 at 23:39
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #15
devere wrote:
allanallen wrote:
Afaik 306 billies aren't available, you'll have to speak to Bilstein themselves and have some re-valved.

Mei, Tarmac spec 205s ran 23mm bars so a higher spring rare than a 306 on 23.5mm?! 306 Tarmac cars were on 25mm + bars I was led to belive?


I used my 306 with 23.5mm bars, and on one bumpy road I thought it was going to throw me off. Took about 40mph off my top speed compared to the previous year. Needless to say I went back to 21's! 25's may be fine on something dead smooth, but I wouldnt go near them if there was a chance of a slight bump!


What dampers were you running? The wheel rate of 23.5mm bars isn't as high as you'd think, especially when compared to other cars, it's the terrible damper ratio that means the dampers can't control it. Remote res 2/3ways are the only way to go (standard mounting wise) on a rally car IMO, anything else either won't work or will fail quickly.

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Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 07:51
adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

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Post #16
I find the 21s fine on rough b road at warp speed but too soft for track. But then my whole car is setup pretty soft and it does make combe nice and smooth

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Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 08:30
devere

Senior User

Location: Saxtead

Registered: 16 Dec 2008

Posts: 810

Status: Offline

Post #17
allanallen wrote:
devere wrote:
allanallen wrote:
Afaik 306 billies aren't available, you'll have to speak to Bilstein themselves and have some re-valved.

Mei, Tarmac spec 205s ran 23mm bars so a higher spring rare than a 306 on 23.5mm?! 306 Tarmac cars were on 25mm + bars I was led to belive?


I used my 306 with 23.5mm bars, and on one bumpy road I thought it was going to throw me off. Took about 40mph off my top speed compared to the previous year. Needless to say I went back to 21's! 25's may be fine on something dead smooth, but I wouldnt go near them if there was a chance of a slight bump!


What dampers were you running? The wheel rate of 23.5mm bars isn't as high as you'd think, especially when compared to other cars, it's the terrible damper ratio that means the dampers can't control it. Remote res 2/3ways are the only way to go (standard mounting wise) on a rally car IMO, anything else either won't work or will fail quickly.


They were the tarmac bilsteins I was using at the time. Went back to the 21's and was far better again. Now running the 3 way proflex with the 21 bars and I wouldn't change it for anything now
Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 08:36
hepkem

Junior User

Location: ISTANBUL

Registered: 11 Dec 2008

Posts: 52

Status: Offline

Post #18
thanks for all the info. I do track days at Istanbul Park F1 circuit once a month. I guess 205 Group A tarmac specs, the ones on below link, is that right ?

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tuning/peugeot/peugeot-205/suspension/shock-absorbers/peugeot-205-bilstein-group-a-tarmac-rear-dampers.html

No comments on AST coilovers, not worth the upgrade compared to my current KW V1 setup + 205 Group A upgrade ?

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tuning/peugeot/peugeot-306/suspension/coilover-kits/peugeot-306-ast-4100-series-coilover-kit.html

I'm running baker bm adjustable top mounts but they squeal a lot Smile Does above AST make similar squeals or not ?

________________________________________

1999 Xsara VTS ITB
Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 19:55
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

Status: Offline

Post #19
sounds like you need to grease the bearing.

I have AST front dampers, no complaints.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 20:41
hepkem

Junior User

Location: ISTANBUL

Registered: 11 Dec 2008

Posts: 52

Status: Offline

Post #20
welshpug! wrote:
sounds like you need to grease the bearing.

I have AST front dampers, no complaints.


I'm running KW V1 front suspension with Baker BM top mounts. Which part I need to grease ?

________________________________________

1999 Xsara VTS ITB
Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 20:42
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,799

Status: Offline

Post #21
see the quoted post...

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 15th Apr 2015 at 20:47
midlife

Seasoned Pro

Location: Colne, Lancashire

Registered: 13 Mar 2006

Posts: 7,544

Status: Offline

Post #22
hepkem wrote:
welshpug! wrote:
sounds like you need to grease the bearing.

I have AST front dampers, no complaints.


I'm running KW V1 front suspension with Baker BM top mounts. Which part I need to grease ?


You need to grease the bearing in the top mountThumbs up

Cool

________________________________________

Get used to seeing the yellow one !!!MehMehMehMehMeh
Team 330Cool
Team "no front end or engine"
Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 stickerSmug
Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engineSmug
203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine
Posted 16th Apr 2015 at 06:13
Mossy1985

Senior User

Location: Darlington

Registered: 04 Nov 2014

Posts: 545

Status: Offline

Post #23
adam b wrote:
I find the 21s fine on rough b road at warp speed but too soft for track. But then my whole car is setup pretty soft and it does make combe nice and smooth


Thats what i like to read when its what i will be using soon Big grin
Posted 16th Apr 2015 at 07:22
hepkem

Junior User

Location: ISTANBUL

Registered: 11 Dec 2008

Posts: 52

Status: Offline

Post #24
midlife wrote:
hepkem wrote:
welshpug! wrote:
sounds like you need to grease the bearing.

I have AST front dampers, no complaints.


I'm running KW V1 front suspension with Baker BM top mounts. Which part I need to grease ?


You need to grease the bearing in the top mountThumbs up

Cool


I have Baker BM's like below. I wasn't at the garage during installation of these. Do they have the bearings as standard mounts which I can grease ?

________________________________________

1999 Xsara VTS ITB
Posted 16th Apr 2015 at 10:15
allanallen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Buxton

Registered: 01 May 2007

Posts: 1,399

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Post #25
Nope just the rose joint, no standard bearing. Give it a squirt of bike chain lube or similar.

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Posted 17th Apr 2015 at 06:49

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