displaying posts 1 to 17 of 17

Author Subject: Brembos + Challengers
osm2121

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Location: Montevideo

Registered: 02 Nov 2012

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Post #1
I´ve got a new set of Challenger wheels, 17" 6,5J, and I have just finished refurbishing a set of 406 Brembos. Got a pair of Xantias 288x28 discs, and decided to try at home and see how they look like all together, before installing it on the car.
The thing is, I placed the Challenger facing down, a 12mm spacer so that the wheel sits in the same place as the Cyclone (Challenger ET 31), then the disc, and when I put the caliper it sits on the inside part of the wheel!!
The outer part of the caliper, where it says Brembo, hits the inside face of the wheel spokes or arms.

Am I missing something here? Has anyone tried this combo?
I guess this means I´ll need bigger spacers, Thumbs down
Posted 22nd Dec 2014 at 22:41
armzsc6

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Post #2
Never tried with challengers but on 288 brembo setup one of my sets of 17's cleared by a few MM and the other set needed 5mm spacers to clear. Both were ET15 to start with. My Superleggeras I run now are ET36 I think with 25mm hub centric spacers so total is ET11 and thy don't scrub anywhere front or rear. You should be ok with 20mm spacers if that will give you enough clearance.

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Posted 24th Dec 2014 at 12:08
osm2121

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Post #3
I mounted all today to try, fitted 16mm spacers with the challengers (totals ET 15) and the calipers doesnt hit the wheel, but it has almost no clearence. I´ll try with 18mm, to give at least 2mm between caliper and wheel.
The other thing, is that the discs it totally out of the center of the caliper, 288 Xantia disc, is completely outwards in reference to the caliper, almost no clearence in the outer side, and about 3 or 4mm maybe out of the inner part. No wonder why the squealing under light breaking
Posted 26th Dec 2014 at 01:03
Mossy1985

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Location: Darlington

Registered: 04 Nov 2014

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Post #4
I had brembos on my 106 and nearly everyone who fitted them had brake squeal and it was all down to the disc offset. No matter what disc you tried including xzantia etc it would not sit straight and true in relation to the caliber. Some lads found if you removed the screws on the alloy runners and cleaned the crud from underneath it quitened the squeal down a little. Also there is a pink compound I used to go on the back of the pad which reduces squeal but both only worked partially. Obviously the offsets etc maybe different on the 306 as I'm stil quite a newbie to them but you definitely need the disc to sit straight in the caliber. Must be achievable on the 306 as I've not seen too many 'brembo squeal problem' threads on here

Dave
Posted 26th Dec 2014 at 09:48
welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #5
not many bother with 406 brembos here, they were so 2007 LOL most have either gone ott with renaultsport brembos or seen the light and used uprated pads in std calipers.

your claim of offset causing it doesn't explain why a std 406 also squeals with larger zero offset discs.

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Posted 26th Dec 2014 at 10:13
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #6
306 offset is the same as 106.

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Posted 26th Dec 2014 at 10:14
osm2121

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Location: Montevideo

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Post #7
The disc sits so outwards, that it even lightly touches the caliper itself. If outer pistons have no travel, and inner have to travel about 4mm to reach the disc, I guess that inbalance must bring some vibrations. If the std 406 also squeals, then something in the design of the brakes went wrong, something is vibrating there. Not tha calipers cause they are same for several cars, but maybe the hub, the material of disc and/or pad, who knows.
I have only mounted it, to see clearences and that stuff, havent tried them yet. But I think I wont even try them with those discs, I´ll try with C5 304x28 discs, or I´ve found some Alfa 310x28 and Mercedes 312x28 that the offset would be perfect to fit them with an adapter for the caliper, and move the caliper to the inside, and make the disc sit exactly in the middle, plus reducing size of spacer for the wheel. Alfa´s are 4 holes, I can do 4 more with correct PCD, or I can try to ask for correct PCD straight to the factory.

Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 12:39
Niall

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Post #8
Offset won't really have anything to do with the clearance. Ive got ET15 Turinis And they clear my Renault sport brembos no worries (well they do between the spokes and calliper anyway lol)
It all depends on where the spokes are on the wheels but even a 1mm clearance will be fine.





Lack of clearance has never caused me an issue even under some really hard conditions
Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 12:48
osm2121

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Post #9
In my case, offset is the problem, both of the wheel and the disc, not the clearence between the caliper and the inner side of the wheel as you show in your picture, my wheels are 17" so theres plenty of room, the problem is the clearence between the caliper and the inner face of the spokes of the wheel. With spacers of 16mm, totaling et15, they dont hit the wheel, but they´re just to close!! Should fit a 17 or 18mm spacer to be safe, but i dont want big spacers. I´d rather move the caliper inwards than the wheel outwards




Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 15:07
armzsc6

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Post #10
Nothing wrong with big spacers if their hub centric.... All the weight and stress should be on the hub not the bolts.

My Superleggeras were never made in peugeot offset so they only sold the ford fitment with I centric spacers and longer bolts.
I'd just fit 20mm hubcentric spacers and be done with it.

I now run the same 406 callipers with 330mm rotors and bells and the calliper is pushed miles inwards. There is also absolutely no noise or vibrations.

I think the noise is more to do with the diameter of the 288mm disc having a different resonance frequency to the standard 305mm 406 ones they were meant for.

You say the calliper doesn't sit centrally could cause the noise but I see unevenly warn pads all the time where say one has been working freely and one has not. Therefore one side has far more piston travel than the other due to uneven pad wear but I've never heard a noise like the 288/406 brembo noise.

Also wouldn't be using 45 profile tyres at 17" on a 306. 40 is much closer to the standard 195/55/15 rolling radius.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 15:52
osm2121

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Post #11
Yes, 40 profile would be almost exactly the same, but Uruguyan roads are s**t, so I fitted a bit more profile to try to protect the wheels a bit more, and a bit more confort in the ride.
Uneven wear pads also happen on calipers with pistones on both sides? I thought that happened on single piston calipers
Guess i'll try with C5 304x28 discs. Only problem is they are 5x108, i'll have to do 3 more holes for a 4x108 pcd. Or a Mercedes E320 312x28, still need to sort the pcd
Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 16:32
osm2121

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Post #12
Well, just took some measurements around the whole thing, and made some math, (should have done this from the beggining) and Xantia discs just are not right nor P&P for Brembos in 306, according to what I did.
After measuring all, I came up with this,
The caliper has 30,5mm from side to side where the disc goes, disc has 28mm, that means theres a gap of 1.25mm at each side of the disc, considering the disc is sitting in the center of the caliper. But the thing is, the disc sits 1.3mm out of the center of the caliper. 1.25mm gap and 1.3mm displaced, results in:



Guess that might cause vibrations Whistle
Posted 27th Dec 2014 at 19:51
aaron6

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Post #13
So the disc is hitting the caliper?

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Posted 28th Dec 2014 at 08:55
armzsc6

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Post #14
Doesn't scrub with 45's then? The 304mm discs will not fit save you some trouble. The reason the standard 406 305mm discs aren't used is because the hub mounting points for the calliper on a 306 is a few mm further in than on the 406 so largest possible disc is about 290mm hence the 288 discs being used.

Can't say I've seen them hit the calliper before?

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 28th Dec 2014 at 10:23
osm2121

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Location: Montevideo

Registered: 02 Nov 2012

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Post #15
I just tested 1 wheel with the caliper, havent take a ride with those yet, but I guess they´ll be perfect! Im waiting to get the car painted, and there I´ll fit everything to him, I want to do all at once. Im now testing and trying all I have, to sort this kind of things out before.

And yep, the discs hit the caliper, very slightly, but they do. I didnt even tried the brakes, I only mounted them (as you can see I havent even fitted the pistons to them), and spin the wheel with my hands just to check clearences and such.
I could only noticed that it was hitting, when I spinned the disc alone, without the wheel. Once i fitted the wheel, and spinned all together, I couldnt even notice it was hitting there, guess the contact was so light that the weight of the wheel wouldnt let me notice, only saw that some caliper paint was in the disc now.

According to what I measured (may not be exact) theres a "negative gap" of 0.05mm between disc and caliper. Once fitted and used a bit, I bet the disc will act like a file over the caliper and trimm that gap, but still, will be out of center and under some temp, or certain conditions, it must keep touching there and maybe thats one cause for vibrations.

It may be a good idea to try (think I´ll do that) to file down the two "rings" it has on the mounting holes:



Take 1 to 1.3mm away from those (has 1.6mm in mine) and the caliper will come out just enough so that the disc sits in the middle of the caliper.

Heres the problem:



There you have 1.25mm gap at each side/arrow and the disc is displaced 1.3mm Dunno
Posted 28th Dec 2014 at 13:54
osm2121

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Location: Montevideo

Registered: 02 Nov 2012

Posts: 229

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Post #16
armzs16 wrote:
Doesn't scrub with 45's then? The 304mm discs will not fit save you some trouble. The reason the standard 406 305mm discs aren't used is because the hub mounting points for the calliper on a 306 is a few mm further in than on the 406 so largest possible disc is about 290mm hence the 288 discs being used.

Can't say I've seen them hit the calliper before?


Im planning on bigger discs, and using adapter. Those 304mm discs from the C5, have the same offset as the Xantias, 34.5mm. Have to sort out some adapters to only move the calipers out from the center, and just 1mm outwards
Posted 28th Dec 2014 at 14:52
osm2121

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Location: Montevideo

Registered: 02 Nov 2012

Posts: 229

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Post #17
I'll try to sell this discs, and build a set of bells and rotors.
By the way, anyone knows the minimun diameter the inside of the bell needs, to clear the hub? So I can give it a bit more offset to the bell to move everything inwards, and not need big spacers.
Posted 30th Dec 2014 at 11:35

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