Cool running fans.. - Interior Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Cool running fans..

pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #1

OK, so i cant seem to get any heat out of my fans. I've checked the following and its fine:

Fan temp selector (switch and servo)
New thermostat
Heater matrix not blocked
Heater matrix pipes both hot

The engine runs cold when driving and gets up to temp properly when still, classic symptoms of a thermostat being duff. However this is new, new red coolant, all running well with no airlocks.

Today i noticed that when i drove slowly, i got nice hot fans. Driving fast - cold. I also noticed that cabin noise increased when i drove past 65.

So, heres my theory. Somehow, excess air from outside is getting into the heater inlet (from the scuttle?) and the heater matrix is being used as a heat exchanger, cooling the fans and also the engine (it runs about 76-79).

Any thoughts? Where would the air be coming into the system?

________________________________________

Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 9th Oct 2014 at 22:00

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buzzbrightyear

Seasoned Pro

Location: hiding all receipts for car

Registered: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 11,894

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Post #2

Is the interior temperature switch working?
Did it get hot before changing coolant and if so did you use the big pop bottle method while loosening the 3 bleed points until water and no air came out of them?
Sounds like the matrix is air locked if it was ok before, if this is the reason you changed the coolant did you check the heater matrix for flow? could also be a blocked matrix limiting the water flowing through it.

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 10:18

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RetroPug

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Location: Leicestershire

Registered: 15 Jan 2013

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Post #3

I know it's an annoying question but when you bled the coolant system did you also bleed the matrix bleed point?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 12:14

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pauldoubleyou

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Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #4

Hi guys yeah i bled all the coolant points using the pop bottle method, im getting flow through the matrix pipework and both pipes are hot. Somehow it seems the air from outside is cooling the matrix.

The interior temp switch is irrelevant surely if its not on auto?

The coolant was changed as i presumed it was a duff thermostat, so changed it as routine when swapping them over.

________________________________________

Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 21:34

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buzzbrightyear

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Location: hiding all receipts for car

Registered: 09 Jul 2008

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Post #5

The interior temp switch controls the flap letting cold air or hot air from the matrix through, there's no way that cold air would get in to the matrix so if it's flowing it may be the flap or heater switch that's not working right.

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 21:45

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bigbadbowen

Seasoned Pro

Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 13,752

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Post #6

No heat at the vents means air lock ? Bleed the system properly dude ? I usually bag hose on a matrix pipe to flush it out ? could also be HG on way out if system is getting air ?

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 21:52

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buzzbrightyear

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Post #7

I thought that but he states that both matrix pipes are hot??

Try bleeding it again.

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 21:57

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bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #8

buzzbrightyear wrote:

I thought that but he states that both matrix pipes are hot??

Try bleeding it again.

open matrix bleed point and Rev engine to clear the air then bleed thermostat housing

I have also discovered that sometimes you only get hot air when reving engine at the vents ?

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:18

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #9

buzzbrightyear wrote:

Yeah, but this is only on auto isnt it? otherwise its hot when you turn the dial to hot?

No i tend to always just get lukewarm air unless the car is stationary.

Ok ok, ill give it another good bleeding and have another look, thanks Big grin

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Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:23

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dangti6

aka JKshooter

Location: Taunton, Somerset

Registered: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 10,305

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Post #10

I'm a Cool Runnings fan.

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Senior Test Automation Engineer for the 306GTi6 Owners Club Forum Wizard

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:28

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bigbadbowen

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Post #11

So your getting only warm air when the dial is in auto ???

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:29

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bigbadbowen

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Post #12

You should always bleed the system with the dial on full on hot Yes

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:31

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pauldoubleyou

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Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #13

Lol no. I never mentioned auto. Forget auto. I was referring to the question about the interior temp sensor.

I get warm air when a) driving very slowly or Cool

sat on the drive idling

Ill do the bleeding and post again tomorrow

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Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:31

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bigbadbowen

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Post #14

Do you get hot air when driving normaly ? Sounds like the matrix is on its way out to me ? Any odd smells or excessive condensation on windscreen ?

Posted 10th Oct 2014 at 22:38

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scotzman

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Location: Dundee

Registered: 24 Jun 2011

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Post #15

bigbadbowen wrote:

You should always bleed the system with the dial on full on hot Yes

Doesn't make any difference on these, the coolant always flows through the matrix, its the air path that changes when you alter the dial.

________________________________________

'90 1.6 205 GTi, '98 306 GTi-6

Posted 11th Oct 2014 at 08:09

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buzzbrightyear

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Registered: 09 Jul 2008

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Post #16

dangti6 wrote:

I'm a Cool Runnings fan.

________________________________________

andrew315rawson@live.co.uk
Moonstone phase 7 gti6
My Project thread: http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=119992&page=1

Posted 11th Oct 2014 at 09:38

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #17

OK so ive rebled the entire system - and it seems that generally the car is running cool. I have a brand new thermostat which i tested in there, and yet it still seems to be overcooling. Im running about at no more than about 80 degrees when driving, which will go up to 96 at idle, then down to 90 when the first stage fan comes on.

Im still convinced its something to do with cold air entering the cabin. Where does the heater / interior ventilation take its suction? Im suspecting that theres a pollen filter or something that should be in the way, not in the way. Getting annoying.

________________________________________

Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 15th Oct 2014 at 21:11

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Puggitt

Regular

Location: New Zealand

Registered: 07 May 2012

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Post #18

Air comes in on the opposite side of your wiper motor, no pollen Filter on 306's at all. Temp range is fairly normal although running temp is a touch low.. My 306 wagon has the exact same temp range and mine still lows hot from 80. Have you checked that the servo actually moves the flap? The gears can be broken or the Servo bent out of engagement (my passengers have huge clown feet I swear...). Other wise matrix buddy.

Posted 24th Oct 2014 at 19:36

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #19

OK its been a while but both hoses are red hot, and im convinced that the matrix is circulating.

When i turn the dial, i can see a lever/disk of sorts moving by looking under the passenger carpet into the side of the heater box. Thing is, just because i can see this moving, does that guarantee its moving the flaps?

Has anyone got any diagrams or pictures i can compare to sort it? Its fecking freezing here and no heat on a morning makes a crap car ride to work.

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Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 31st Oct 2014 at 22:14

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bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #20

A leaky matrix will cause a coolant smell in the cabin and also coat the windscreen with a fine film ? Sounds to me like a leaky matrix ? Change it to be sure ?

Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 00:22

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #21

It's not leaking. No lost coolant, nice pressure, no condensation.

It's got to be the heater flaps or the matrix isn't actually circulating the water as it should. The fans are lukewarm at best.

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Paul
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Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 13:57

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

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Post #22

Right, progress. I've had a look at where the servo and arm is (under the heater) and while watching it and turning the dial for temperature, the problem is pretty obvious. The arm isn't moving at all once I get to halfway on the dial, it goes full to cold fine but as soon as I get to about 21 degrees it won't budge anymore towards hot. So it's correct, I'm getting lukewarm.

I predict either the motor isn't fitted properly or even the dial isn't working / seated correctly. Rain stopped play but I'll see tomorrow.

________________________________________

Paul
Hiding with Pride

Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 18:11

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Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 7,757

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Post #23

Remember that it's an automatic system with a internal temperature sensor, and as such the position of the air control flaps aren't directly controlled by the temperature control dial.

If it's 5 degrees in the car and you're asking for 21 then the automatic controller would have turned the heat up to full already.

I'm not saying you haven't found your problem, but it's something to bear in mind...

In fact, checking the temperature sensor might be a good thing to tick off. It's in the roof console, and incorporates a little fan that draws air into the sensor. The fan sometimes gets clogged up causing the sensor to give false readings.

________________________________________

Rich

Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 18:31

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pauldoubleyou

Junior User

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 13 Sep 2014

Posts: 78

Status: Offline

Post #24

Surely though you throw it all the way to hot you get hot?

My fan isnt spinning in the temp sensor, and im not even convinced its working at all - but i havent replaced it as from what i understand the sensor only comes into play when you ask for auto..

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Paul
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Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 20:10

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

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Post #25

if the sensor is reading wrong you might not get full heat.

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Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 1st Nov 2014 at 20:13

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