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Author Subject: Guide to fitting a larger master cylinder
demondriverdan

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Location: Londinium

Registered: 29 Nov 2010

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Post #1
This will probably be one of the easiest things you can do on the car. After having issues with a long brake pedal on the race car with Ash's 310mm kit fitted I asked around and it was suggested to fit a bigger master cylinder. A massive, massive thank you to devere who told me that a MC out of a VW Transporter T4 would fit!

Parts you will need:

- VW Transporter T4 25.3mm MC (http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Master-Cylinder-With-ABS-ITT-Calipers-T4-01-96-03-7D0611019B_act_shop.product_pID_143250031.htm
- Copper (or material of your choice) brake pipe
- 2x male pipe connectors to go into the MC
- A spare fluid reservoir

Couple of things that should be pointed out before beginning is that I have already run replacement brake pipes throughout the car and that I used the spare car to line everything up before fitting to the actual race car.

First thing to do is to put your spare reservoir on to the new MC while the male pipe connectors are in place. You should be able to see that the pipes will foul on the reservoir. To fix this I simply used a heat gun on its lowest setting and gently applied heat and pressure to the required area. Be careful not to heat too much or you risk putting a hole in the reservoir, which would be a ballache! Sadly, no pictures of this step.

With that done I cut 2x 15(ish) centimetre lengths of brake pipe and flared one of the ends to go in to the MC. Using a pipe bending tool I put a 90 degree bend in the pipe to try and clear the reservoir. It wasn't quite enough but a good start none the less.



Then bend the pipes a little more by hand to make sure you get the right clearance. Might be worth putting the reservoir on while doing it to make sure there's enough clearance. Something like this:





I then put a split pin through the MC and reservoir to hold it together. Could really pull the pin apart but should provide enough stability to hold it in place:



Now I bent the pipes around more so that they ran underneath the MC and out to the direction they would have come from on the old MC. I also flared the other ends with another male connector on and connected it to a male-male joiner. The idea being the joiner should connect in to the old pipes directly requiring no additional work.

At this point we started to work on the car. Firstly I used an oil extractor tool to pull as much fluid as possible out of the reservoir. Removing the MC itself is easy, just undo the brake pipes and the 2 13mm nuts that hold it to the servo and lift it out. Watch out for leaking fluid down the engine bay from the servo / end of MC!

Fitting the new one back in is just as easy. Maneuver the MC into the servo and tighten the nuts up to hold it in place. Then you can connect up the old pipes to the joiner and tighten everything down. Easy peasy! Might need to bend the pipes around a little but nothing complicated.

Everything fitted:



Bleed your brakes and off you go Smile Like I said, nothing too complicated and seemed to help a lot on slow speed tests.

________________________________________

Rallye Race Car
Posted 25th May 2014 at 00:16
eddy_gti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: Durham

Registered: 20 Oct 2008

Posts: 8,716

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Post #2
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Master-Cylinder-With-ABS-ITT-Calipers-T4-01-96-03-7D0611019B_act_shop.product_pID_143250031.htm

You need to remove the close bracket thing for link to work. ) Big grin

Very interesting. Will be interesting to see how you get on next time on track. Good write up Thumbs up

________________________________________


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Posted 25th May 2014 at 00:14
demondriverdan

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Location: Londinium

Registered: 29 Nov 2010

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Post #3
Cheers Chris, sorted now Smile

________________________________________

Rallye Race Car
Posted 25th May 2014 at 00:17
craig903

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Location: whitstable

Registered: 08 Jul 2013

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Post #4
What size unions are they going into the master cylinder, I have one and apparently they are m10 x 1, mine looks at least m12

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208 GTI Owner
Turbo'd '6 project - work in progress
Posted 6th Nov 2017 at 20:00
RallyeRed

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Location: Northwich

Registered: 03 May 2016

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Post #5
Yeah they're definitely M12. Mine weren't M10 despite being advertised as such from the retailer I bought mine from. Really messed me about when I was doing mine as I was using banjo bolts etc and had everything ready to go on.
Posted 6th Nov 2017 at 20:40
craig903

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Registered: 08 Jul 2013

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Post #6
Its messed me about already haha, been searching for m10 ones as i thaught mine must be imperial or something.

________________________________________

208 GTI Owner
Turbo'd '6 project - work in progress
Posted 6th Nov 2017 at 21:29
russbez

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Location: Inverness-Shire

Registered: 19 Dec 2005

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Post #7
bump

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Posted 22nd Apr 2021 at 16:57
turboblack

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Location: San Lorenzo Isontino

Registered: 04 Mar 2010

Posts: 84

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Post #8
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?

________________________________________

306cab 2.0 16v:
Wossner 12:1
45mm Jenvey
Piper 285H
6 Gearbox + Quaife LSD
406 Brembo
D2 Suspension
E-tech Strut Brace
Emerald K6 Ecu
Posted 23rd Jul 2022 at 16:18
Day666

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Location: Bristol

Registered: 20 Apr 2013

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Post #9
turboblack wrote:
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?



Hello
the answer is in the very first post Thumbs up

bend it 90 degrees
Posted 14th Oct 2022 at 16:44
pug_306

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Location: Great Hockham

Registered: 28 May 2013

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Post #10
Day666 wrote:
turboblack wrote:
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?



Hello
the answer is in the very first post Thumbs up

bend it 90 degrees


They also do a NON ABS 4 port version which is better as you blank the left 2.

________________________________________

1998 Supercharged White Rallye
1992 205 GTi6
205 Turbo 340bhp
Posted 16th Oct 2022 at 10:20
turboblack

Junior User

Location: San Lorenzo Isontino

Registered: 04 Mar 2010

Posts: 84

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Post #11
I'll make photos to explain better what I ask, but I also solved the problem changing the brake booster with a mk1 Peugeot Partner one that have the pump screws with the same inclination of the T4 Cilinder

________________________________________

306cab 2.0 16v:
Wossner 12:1
45mm Jenvey
Piper 285H
6 Gearbox + Quaife LSD
406 Brembo
D2 Suspension
E-tech Strut Brace
Emerald K6 Ecu
Posted 16th Oct 2022 at 13:10
matt_h

Newbie

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 14 Apr 2021

Posts: 2

Status: Offline

Post #12
Does doing this conversion make the pedal shorter travel? I keep getting a long, soft pedal on trackdays and would like to improve it if possible.

Are there any downsides to the conversion?
Posted 16th Oct 2022 at 16:48
Joep

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Location: Urmond (The Netherlands)

Registered: 19 Sep 2013

Posts: 443

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Post #13
pug_306 wrote:
Day666 wrote:
turboblack wrote:
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?



Hello
the answer is in the very first post Thumbs up

bend it 90 degrees


They also do a NON ABS 4 port version which is better as you blank the left 2.


That is interesting as I have a non-ABS ph.1 XSI with RFS conversion + GTI brakes.

________________________________________

My car park:
'96 Sigma Blue XSi6
'98 Diablo Red GTi6
'99 Onyx Black S16

All RFS powered!

Plus various other Peugeots
Posted 16th Oct 2022 at 19:06
pug_306

Seasoned Pro

Location: Great Hockham

Registered: 28 May 2013

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Post #14
Joep wrote:
pug_306 wrote:
Day666 wrote:
turboblack wrote:
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?



Hello
the answer is in the very first post Thumbs up

bend it 90 degrees


They also do a NON ABS 4 port version which is better as you blank the left 2.


That is interesting as I have a non-ABS ph.1 XSI with RFS conversion + GTI brakes.


If its got GTi6 brakes theres no need for a VW M/C just the standard GTi6 size, you can use a 406 non abs 23mm master ( 4 Port )

________________________________________

1998 Supercharged White Rallye
1992 205 GTi6
205 Turbo 340bhp
Posted 17th Oct 2022 at 09:52
Joep

Regular

Location: Urmond (The Netherlands)

Registered: 19 Sep 2013

Posts: 443

Status: Offline

Post #15
pug_306 wrote:
Joep wrote:
pug_306 wrote:
Day666 wrote:
turboblack wrote:
How you manage the different orientation of the brake pump holes? Rotate the servo or mount the pump inclined?



Hello
the answer is in the very first post Thumbs up

bend it 90 degrees


They also do a NON ABS 4 port version which is better as you blank the left 2.


That is interesting as I have a non-ABS ph.1 XSI with RFS conversion + GTI brakes.


If its got GTi6 brakes theres no need for a VW M/C just the standard GTi6 size, you can use a 406 non abs 23mm master ( 4 Port )


Thanks!

________________________________________

My car park:
'96 Sigma Blue XSi6
'98 Diablo Red GTi6
'99 Onyx Black S16

All RFS powered!

Plus various other Peugeots
Posted 17th Oct 2022 at 10:25
devere

Senior User

Location: Saxtead

Registered: 16 Dec 2008

Posts: 810

Status: Offline

Post #16
matt_h wrote:
Does doing this conversion make the pedal shorter travel? I keep getting a long, soft pedal on trackdays and would like to improve it if possible.

Are there any downsides to the conversion?


The long soft pedal sounds more like brake fade. That won't be cured by a bigger master cylinder. It's the brakes getting too hot and the fluid in the calipers starting to boil. So you would need to look at upgrading the brake components and/or adding some cooling airflow to the brakes

When I originally did the conversion to the VW master cylinder, it was because I moved to using 4 pot AP calipers. So this meant there was more fluid moving with the bigger amount in the calipers. With the standard setup this meant the pedal travel was longer. The bigger master cylinder moved more fluid and compensated for that. That was a good setup til I moved to a pedal box.
Posted 17th Oct 2022 at 18:23
matt_h

Newbie

Location: Sheffield

Registered: 14 Apr 2021

Posts: 2

Status: Offline

Post #17
Cheers for the reply. I'll redo the fluid again.
Posted 18th Oct 2022 at 19:24
gnrlee Forum Owner

Location: Leeds

Registered: 20 Aug 2005

Posts: 8,857

Status: Offline

Post #18
Moved to FAQ Big grin

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Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club
Posted 29th Oct 2022 at 11:33

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