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Author Subject: Strut not sitting in hub properly?
mellowr1

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Post #126
luke89 wrote:
Ok folks, I've spoken with KAM racing and theyre happy to take this to Bilstein for us which might give us a bit more of a shot of seeing whats gone on.He wants me to send over any pictures or measurements by email so if anyone who has measurement pictures,pictures of the car riding at a different height after fitment etc etc could post them all here then I will collate them when I've finished work and send them all over to him.



Anything happening on this??Dunno Unsure
Posted 12th Mar 2015 at 16:55
daver6

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Post #127
Anyone thing is the springs rather than shocks?

We're all on B4's body length is wrong, but all other dimensions are correct.

We all have lowering springs and we're all no lower.....

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Posted 17th Mar 2015 at 18:04
armzsc6

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Post #128
Because the shocks sit higher in the hub causing the bottom spring platform to raise up therefore the ride height..... Springs have nothing to do with it.

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Posted 17th Mar 2015 at 18:58
daver6

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Post #129
Eddy just stuck some on his standard shocks and says they've not lowered it.

Sorry, I was under the impression the locating tab is in the correct place, but the body of the shock isn't correct

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Posted 17th Mar 2015 at 19:47
eddy_gti6

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Post #130
Av just fitted some eibach 40mm springs to my rallye on standard shocks and has no difference to the ride hight the spring was shorted than the standard unit but then the standard spring was a lot softer than the eibach spring

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Posted 17th Mar 2015 at 19:51
armzsc6

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Post #131
Are they brand new? In which case they will take a few days of driving to settle down. Eibachs don't drop by much anyway and as said the original springs will have sagged over years of use.

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Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
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Posted 18th Mar 2015 at 11:29
thewho07

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Post #132
Did anyone manage to get to the bottom of this? I have just fitted some B4's and I'm having the same problem. I don't have the old shocks to compare to unfortunately, just wondering if the overall b4 shock length is too short and the tabs are in the correct place OR are the tabs in the wrong place and need to be moved up 10/15mm? Not going to bother fitting them if they aren't right.

thanks
Posted 4th Jan 2016 at 16:01
mellowr1

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Post #133
as i believe it the tab at the bottom is welded too low on the body....stopping it from sitting in hub lower as pete said.
I posted here a while back as someone said they were willing to take this up with bilstein...but nothingDunno
Shame coz im itching to buy a set but not spending out on something that does not achieve what i wantSmile
Posted 4th Jan 2016 at 18:37
prism7guy

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Post #134
I thought i remembered someone did get in touch with Bilstein but they claimed their manufacturing was correct. (I cant be bothered to re-read through 5 pages to check though Razz)
Mine also sit too high in the hubs, but i'm on standard peugeot springs so the car is essentially a monster truck at the front Laugh

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Posted 4th Jan 2016 at 19:01
mellowr1

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Post #135
luke89 wrote:
Ok folks, I've spoken with KAM racing and theyre happy to take this to Bilstein for us which might give us a bit more of a shot of seeing whats gone on.He wants me to send over any pictures or measurements by email so if anyone who has measurement pictures,pictures of the car riding at a different height after fitment etc etc could post them all here then I will collate them when I've finished work and send them all over to him.



page 5 Thumbs up LOL
Posted 5th Jan 2016 at 18:13
ben01328

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Post #136
I had b4's with -30 eibach springs on my 6 till i swapped to coilovers and they worked just fine car drove lovely. you could get the spring off without any clamps needed though, there wasn't much pressure from the shock at all, not dangerous though held in place fine. probably just cos of shorter spring i guess.

If your interested ive got the front and rear shocks for sale, done less than 7k miles.

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Posted 5th Jan 2016 at 18:24
ben01328

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Post #137
Ha, just read through this whole thread and realized that this thread was started because of the car i now own Laugh my ass off and seeing as they have been on the car nearly 2 years and had no issues a cant see it being a problem

also as its supercharged surely they would have been under more stress Dunno and its hasn't affected them at all.

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Posted 5th Jan 2016 at 21:24
armzsc6

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Post #138
The point was they don't sit as far into the hub as the OE items and therefore aren't clamped in very well. And the fact this raises the ride height. They can't actually go anywhere as the weight of the car pushes them into the hub.

And supercharging will have no effect on the suspension apart from engine mounts and driveshafts.

I don't rate B4's at all tbh their softer than standard gti shocks were when they were new.

________________________________________

Black power baby! SUUUUUPERCHARGED Superman
Seat Leon FR TDI 190BHP 300lbft daily gti-6 killer :p
12x 306's owned so far

Cambelts, clutches, service work carried out on All makes and models, Peugeot Citroen / mitsubishi specialist.
Pug planet / Citroen Lexia diagnostics / code reads available.
Posted 5th Jan 2016 at 22:12
heliosphan

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Post #139
Bump. Roll eyes

I'm pretty p**sed to discover that I too have monster truck levels of front ride height. I wish I'd known of this issue before buying and fitting new shock absorbers. Never mind...

Guess what? They aren't B4s. They are infact just simple Sachs standard replacements for OE shocks; so it seems Bilstein aren't alone is this.

I have taken a few measurements so far and I think I'll try to update the thread with a post covering a few measurements in the coming days. This will no doubt be a huge help given how common 306s are on the roads in 2021.

I have a pair of used OE shock absorbers and will take careful measurements of these, with photos, along with a crusty 10 year old pattern part Boge [beau-shhh? Bodge? bog-ee?] likely from GSF that I'll also include, and finally the new Sachs replacements which are too high.

On first inspection it seems that the distance between the base of the location tab (flush with the top of the hub clamp) and the part of the spring seat directly in line with it is approx. 2cm more than the OE and Boge shock. The Boge one measures correctly in all dimensions when compared with OE.

Something else interesting to note; unlike many examples of Bilstein shocks in this thread, the base of the Sachs units actually protrudes slightly (up to ~1cm) below the lower face of the hub clamp. I'm leaning towards the spring seat being fixed too high. Does that seem reasonable? The springs are OE 5002P9 yellow, white, green.

My concern at this stage is what to do about it. Getting them repaced/refunded might be a hassle given that I've fitted them. I saw someone in this or another thread on the same issue say that cutting off the locating tab isn't a crazy idea and some coilovers don't even have this tab anyway. So would cutting the welds and removing the tab be a reasonable thing to do? I'm happy to carefully scribe an accurate circumferencial mark for where the shock should sit in the hub based on the OE shocks I have to hand.
I'm actually a little concerned that the extra shock body protruding through the clamp might be a little too close to the CV gaiter if I were to do this.

Does the tab play any part in preventing the shock sliding through the clamp and hitting the CV joint when I land Ballaugh Bridge at 120mph, or is it all in the clamping force?
Posted 9th Mar 2021 at 21:49
S8-Tom

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Post #140
Odd that two manufacturers have had the same issue Dunno

Not sure I'd be comfortable removing the tab. As you've highlighted, there's always the concern that the strut will slip through the clamp.

The Monroe units I've put on my car all fitted up fine and the arch gap is spot on.



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Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 07:55
jord294

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Post #141
Not had any problems with b4s or monroes.

I have some gaz adjustables here that I'll probably trial git at some point


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Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 09:47
Joep

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Post #142
@Tom: do you have the part numbers for all that is shown in your photo? I need to replace front struts from one of my 306s.

I have the topmouns from Monroe already, just need everything else as well.

Thanks in advance!

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Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 10:26
S8-Tom

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Post #143
Joep wrote:
@Tom: do you have the part numbers for all that is shown in your photo? I need to replace front struts from one of my 306s.

I have the topmouns from Monroe already, just need everything else as well.

Thanks in advance!


Sure, as follow:

Monroe front right = R8001
Monroe front left = R8002



9 = 525421
7 = 503377
2 = 503137

I'm not sure if the bump stops and boots I was supplied are 100% right so suggest you find some that correspond to:
3 = 525413
4 = 503327

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Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 12:18
Joep

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Post #144
Awesome! Thanks!

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My car park:
'96 Sigma Blue XSi6
'98 Diablo Red GTi6
'99 Onyx Black S16

All RFS powered!

Plus various other Peugeots
Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 15:08
heliosphan

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Post #145
Those Monroe shocks seem like a good option for me. I also see they are oil pressure like the OE units, not gas pressure.

I'll do the right thing and order new correctly manufactured shocks instead of butchering these Sachs ones. Bloody annoying waste of time and money...
Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 15:42
S8-Tom

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Post #146
heliosphan wrote:
Those Monroe shocks seem like a good option for me. I also see they are oil pressure like the OE units, not gas pressure.


Yeah, I did a bit of research + I'd had Monroe on a 306 in the past. They felt a bit harsh at first but were fine after a few miles.

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Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 16:55
heliosphan

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Post #147
Below are the measurements from the OE Peugeot shock absorbers. The spring seat isn't located at an equal distance around the circumference, so I took measurements in line with the hub locating tab (it's a tab on aftermarket shocks but more of a ridge on the OE units, as shown) directly parallel to the drop link tab.
I used the lowest edge of the spring seat where the coil would sit, not the recessed area where the seat is fixed to the shock body.

For the drop link tab, I didn't measure to the tab top/bottom as each manufacturer will have welded a slightly different size tab on; I took it to the centre of the drop link bolt hole.


178mm - spring seat to base of hub locator tab
75mm - spring seat to drop link centre bolt hole
103mm - drop link centre bolt hole to base of hub locator tab




Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 17:31
heliosphan

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Post #148
With the Sachs shocks still in the hubs I took a reasonably good measurement of 185mm from the base of the hub locator tab to the base of the spring seat. This difference of ~7mm is smaller than I initially thought yesterday from a crude check and doesn't seem to account for the huge wheel arch gap I now have. I can fit my upright clenched fist in there easily.
I currently have 50 profile tyres, but the arch gap was never like this before.

Is this likely to be spring-related? Do they need to 'bed in' over time? That's some significant bedding in, if so...
I have P9s on there so I can't see how they're wrong for the car. If I had P9s on a
Rallye, then maybe. P7s on a Gti would make it sag.

Posted 10th Mar 2021 at 17:42
Joep

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Post #149
I was looking into the difference between gas-shocks and oil shocks... seems gas-shocks are oil-shocks with gas pressure to have a better reaction. The Bilstein B4 is a gas-shock.

As many say B4s are closest to OEM, how much does the gas add to to handling on a 306?

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My car park:
'96 Sigma Blue XSi6
'98 Diablo Red GTi6
'99 Onyx Black S16

All RFS powered!

Plus various other Peugeots
Posted 11th Mar 2021 at 15:56
Joep

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Post #150
In other words: would an oil shock not be more close to OEM than the Bilstein B4?

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My car park:
'96 Sigma Blue XSi6
'98 Diablo Red GTi6
'99 Onyx Black S16

All RFS powered!

Plus various other Peugeots
Posted 11th Mar 2021 at 18:32

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