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Author Subject: Difficulty starting car
RetroPug

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Post #1
I'll try to keep this fairly short as I'm at work, and add more details once I get home and I've had the chance to check things and have a look.

This morning my car wouldn't start, it turned over fine, it just wouldn't fire. I had this problem on monday night as well, except that after several tries and playing with the throttle it struggled into life. Once it had fired it then ran and drove flawlessly though. I also had this problem once several weeks ago after the car was left out in the hot sun.

One thing I am fairly confident that I can rule out is the battery, as it was replaced very recently and is a Bosch S4. Can anyone tell me what I am likely to need to check? I will check the usual things like plugs etc. it's just strange that it runs flawlessly once it starts. The car was due a service anyway so ideally all of these things would be changed soon, but I'd still like to get to the bottom of this.

The only things that have been done recently are having the exhaust welded back up, and the radiator changed. I'm not sure why, but I have a nagging suspicion that the garage may not have bled the cooling system after doing this, so I'll check to see if there's an airlock when I get home. Does anybody know if this might affect the starting of the car? Could this issue possibly have something to do with the HG? I may get it compression checked.

Basically, I'm going to look into this when I get home, but I was just wondering if anybody had any good ideas as to what specifically it sounds like it might be and what it would be a good idea to check first.

Thank you.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 08:05
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #2
Possibly the coolant temp sensor gone bad, making the ECU run less fuel than is required on startup.

Another possibility could be a cam sensor on it's way out. Yes

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 08:10
RetroPug

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Post #3
Thank you, how would I check these things?
Is the only way to simply replace them and see if it works?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 10:51
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #4
FAQ FTMFW.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 10:57
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #5
The CTS has certain resistance values that are available on Autodata for you to check (we have this illustrated in the FAQ as well) the cam sensor I believe also has resistance values which will be different when the sensor picks up metal and when it doesn't. These values should be obtainable through Autodata.

Check the CTS first though, it's also the cheapest. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 10:57
darkgti6

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Post #6
Ive got this issue to. Been doing it for years. Still not got to the bottom of it.

________________________________________

Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti

Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 10:58
RetroPug

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Post #7
I realise that there's probably a lot of information in the FAQs, which I'll check when I'm at home, but I simply don't have time to browse & search them all at work.

The OP was pre-typed and copied and pasted in.

Thanks for the help.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 11:13
jimmyhackers

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Post #8
it could be dirty injectors. remove them and get them cleaned professionally.

if they are so dirty as so they dont close and seal, the fuel pressure thats should remain after the engine is off is slowly leaked into your inlet. meaning when you come back to it in the morning it will have to re-pressurises each injector. also the excess leaked fuel in each cyclinder will make it harder for the engine to compress and turn over to begin with.

my local place does all four for 20 quid in a proper ultrasoinic machine. pretty simple to remove just a couple of bolts and a clip for each injector.

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 12:35
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #9
^^Why do you seem to think that every engine issue requires injector cleaning?

You seem to have suggested this a few times now. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 12:38
jimmyhackers

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Post #10
becuase your injectors are what supply and regulate the fuel.

and its what most 15 year old cars have never had replaced or cleaned.

start with the basics first then go onto the harder/more expensive stuff

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 12:44
darkgti6

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Post #11
I had mine cleaned. Didnt make the slightest bit of difference.

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Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti

Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 12:48
jimmyhackers

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Post #12
did you get to stick around for the before and after spray test patterns?
im sad and enjoy that kind of thing. you really noticed all the spray pattern improove dramatically.

both mine have been phase ones so that may effect how old/bad they were, a newere gti can have a fair few years less grime. i have notice some difference performance wise, not more power but a quicker engine startup and the idle was that little bit smoother. cant of hurt my emmisions either.

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 13:18
darkgti6

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Post #13
I sent them away. Got a report for before and after. None of them were in a bad way beforehand though. Minor improvement to both flow and spray pattern particularly on injector 3 apparently. Maybe it ran slightly smoother but thats it.

________________________________________

Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti

Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 14:43
RetroPug

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Post #14
Figured it out. The actual ignition barrel that the key goes into is a bit wobbly and if you push hard and wiggle the key it starts. It'll get sorted soon.

Could you be experiencing the same problem darkgti6?

Thanks for the help guys.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 18:31
jimmyhackers

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Post #15
you should end up with a cleaner burn, which in time will help prevent and possibly even remove a lot of the sooty deposits that are on your exhaust valves and in your manifold. this could help prolong your cat and exhaust lifetime. view it as a preventative maintenance.

as said is not a massively noticable differcence but id say its something needed in a "service" especially if the car is new to you. you never know how low the previous owners have been running the tank between fills. once its done its done nad you can generally illiminate "injector problems" from your list of causes for future problems that arrise.

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 31st Jul 2013 at 18:34
jimmyhackers

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Post #16
lol we were all wrong on that one Razz

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the world is changed by people in sheds
Posted 2nd Aug 2013 at 00:49
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #17
Glad you figured it out. Thumbs up

On the subject of injector cleaning, Jimmy does have a point, they ought to be done at some point in a engines life.
I think however, mine will be ok as I've had the injectors from new, only ever run Shell V-Power through them and never run the tank down to where the light comes on.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 2nd Aug 2013 at 08:12
RetroPug

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Post #18
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Glad you figured it out. Thumbs up.

That's also why it was starting after several tries...I was getting frustrated and ramming it in. LOL

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 3rd Aug 2013 at 15:36
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

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Post #19
RetroPug wrote:
stan_306gti6 wrote:
Glad you figured it out. Thumbs up.

That's also why it was starting after several tries...I was getting frustrated and ramming it in. LOL


LOL

Nothing like getting frustrated and it actually making the car work because of it.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 3rd Aug 2013 at 17:14
RetroPug

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Post #20
Update: the supposed key wobbling fault was diagnosed by a worker at a local garage, however, when I took the car back to be fixed, the owner of the garage said that this wasn't it, but the car was starting flawlessly every time so until it went wrong again there was no way he could check what was causing it.

The car has since been pushed quite hard around the Nordschleife and done a few hundred miles all flawlessly...but this morning it really did not want to start again! It was completely cold, and it was almost catching but not quite, until eventually by mucking around with the throttle after several attempts it did start, and then ran flawlessly all the way to work.
At work I tried starting it again after I'd turned it off and the first time it started right on the button, and the second time it turned over for maybe one crank more than normal but started fine as well.

I've been meaning to clean out the ICV as it's not been done on this car and it probably should be, but I doubt that this is what's stopping it (although it'd be nice if it did!).

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 13th Aug 2013 at 06:56
RetroPug

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Post #21
ICV was filthy and needed the clean. The car started fine after I'd cleaned it but it was still fairly warm.

This morning the car was very reluctant to catch and although it was turning over fine, it sounded like it was really trying to fire but not quite managing it, and with lots of throttle it spluttered into life and then ran flawlessly, even slightly nicer at idle since the ICV clean.
Reading all the horror stories on here, I'm beginning to get worried that it could be the HG, although that'd be strange as the car really does run very sweetly and pulls like a train in all gears up to the redline with not even the minutest little blip.

There have been other members on here who've discovered that their HG is on the way out before it makes the car run like a dog though so the worry is still there. I've got no mayo and the coolant doesn't seem to be getting pressurised when the car's been left to cool for 1-2 days.

It's going to the garage again on the way home for them to look. I hope it is something silly.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 14th Aug 2013 at 10:08
sharvey44

Senior User

Location: East London

Registered: 22 Feb 2010

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Post #22
ICV/Green Temp Sensor isues would affect cold starting.

Although you've cleaned the ICV doesn't mean its still not faulty.

Temp Sensor is only a few quid.

________________________________________

Ph2.5 Nile - Slowly trying to de-East London it and restore to former glory...
Built on the 9 Febuary 1999 - Tuesday's car..is full of pace? Wink

Currently looking slightly molested due to some c*nt trying to get into it.. Sad

According to the forum Social Worker, because I work in IT, I am socially retarted..
Posted 14th Aug 2013 at 10:19
RetroPug

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Post #23
Thatis true, however the car seems to idle completely fine and I'd expect some other noticable symptoms of a faulty ICV.
I think the temp. sensor is probably a good bet because it seems like it's not getting enough fuel when cold and not quite firing up, but the fuel that it does get is igniting, just not enough to start up properly.

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 14th Aug 2013 at 10:33
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #24
CTS is a very good call, I think they are around £15 from Pug so not too dear.

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 14th Aug 2013 at 11:30
RetroPug

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Location: Leicestershire

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Post #25
This is part # 1920K9
For a '6, correct?

Edit:
Ordered that. I can't find any threads on it with the search (bar locations etc.), I assume swapping it is fairly straightforward?

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61k miles Ph.1 Diablo '6 Project Thread
Posted 14th Aug 2013 at 16:59

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