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Author Subject: Wössner Conrods
sandy

Junior User

Location: Truro

Registered: 02 Oct 2005

Posts: 70

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Post #51
As Daveyboy said, more of a concern in high revving engines, but I have seen those rods fail in engines where OE rods would likely have been as reliable. The crown design is the obvious one, material quality, machining consistency and how they behave when impacted are other considerations.

Sainz rods are good, from the applications I've seen.

Alot of engine builders use these it's true; I can't speak for them, but my experiences and the correlated information from the builders I work with, has taught me the importance of quality in this area. The piston/rod shown above were supplied to me by a customer, he wanted me to fit the head to the bottom end. The pockets could have been machined, perhaps the stress point on the rods could be reduced, but it would still be trying to make good parts that I wasn't happy with the quality of. Thankfully he appreciated why and returned those parts and I ordered my own ones and built it from scratch. That situation is always a dilemma, likewise old parts or different management etc, because I feel for the customer's situation and ramping costs, but I can't take the risks on for them; it's best for everyone that it's just done right from the word go. I'll resist the need to post further anecdotals
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:14
davedgti6

Seasoned Pro

Location: whiston, prescot

Registered: 28 May 2006

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Post #52
Saenz Rods and Pec Rods Smile

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:24
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #53
Thanks for taking the time to post up your findings. I did intend to centre dot the tops of my Wossners during the dry build to check the clearance of the valves but I will be paying them even closer attention now.
I'm also pretty stoked that I sold on my PEC rods before I got around to using them.

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:29
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #54
Yours look a fair bit different to mine...









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R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:35
pete_rallye

Seasoned Pro

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

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Post #55
stan_306gti6 wrote:
daveyboy wrote:
They may have made some changes then. I'm sure if they were all as badly wrong as the ones pictured then there would've been some spectacular failures by now.


The Wossner pistons that Rich uses are custom made to his design, not off the shelf ones. Therefore, if they're wrong, then he measured wrong. Laugh

Which, I'm sure he didn't as my engine runs sweet. Yes


Which is exactly my point. The technical drawing that is sent to a piston manufacturers may well be 100% perfect, that doesn't mean the pistons you receive will be. Always check that what you receive is what you ask for!

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:51
pete_rallye

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 21:58
bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #57
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:02
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

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Post #58
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:17
bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #59
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!



Very true but a good engine builder is also a must Yes
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:21
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

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Post #60
Arrow never used to be bad on price tbh.

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:25
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #61
Wossners aren't exactly tuppence a set either Dunno

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:31
pete_rallye

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Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 12 Dec 2002

Posts: 5,253

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Post #62
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!



Very true but a good engine builder is also a must Yes


A good engine builder?! It's a myth, there is no such thing. If ye want summin done reet, do it thyself!

________________________________________

Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 1
Oulton Park in a BTCC 306 vid 2
Lap of the 'ring
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:50
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #63
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!



Very true but a good engine builder is also a must Yes


A good engine builder?! It's a myth, there is no such thing. If ye want summin done reet, do it thyself!

^^ This! Thumbs up
Just my 2p's worth! Big grin

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 22:56
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #64
daveyboy wrote:
Again Mr Irrelevant your post is unwarranted, the discussion is revolving around high comp naturally aspirated pistons with large intruder domes. Not, I repeat not, flat top or concave low comp items.


No need for the aggression Jim, calm it dude, it's a discussion...

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:03
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #65
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!



Very true but a good engine builder is also a must Yes


A good engine builder?! It's a myth, there is no such thing. If ye want summin done reet, do it thyself!


Beg to differ..

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:17
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #66
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:
bigbadbowen wrote:
pete_rallye wrote:


Get your rent out, get your rent out

Get your rent out for the very expensive shiny bits


Buy cheap, buy twice! With the added damage done by a failed rod, even more important not to skimp on quality!



Very true but a good engine builder is also a must Yes


A good engine builder?! It's a myth, there is no such thing. If ye want summin done reet, do it thyself!


They are out there, I cant recommend Guy Croft highly enough, I've never met Sandy but he's in very good standing over on 205 Drivers, plus I'm encouraged by his comments above about the dilemma faced when a builder is provided with substandard parts to do a job, a less scrupulous man might well have taken the customers money, fitted the dodgy parts but with the proviso that when or if it fails it's down to them. And then after it goes bang, offer to build another engine using the parts they should've used first time around, doubling his money in the process.
The good ones seem to be quiet types who don't have big shouty websites or hordes of boy racers queuing out the door of flashy shop fronts, but clean, well organised workshops with lots of engines on the go from mainly racing teams or customers. Success on track is no accident, to use an old cliche, "when the flag drops the bulls**t stops".
If they don't do a good job, the engine won't last, won't make good power or both.

You've been tucked up badly in the past by someone and that's unfortunate, but to take the view that there isn't a good, trustworthy engine builder out there is some way off the mark.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:25
eliotrw

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Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

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Post #67
What about IASA pistons then? Yay or neigh?
So weve decided the only off the shelf bit worth their metal are Saenz rods.

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:33
jamiek_uk2000

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Post #68
The worst thing about good engine builders is that they are almost always a guy working out of his garage/workshop with about 100 people waiting for a build! You can have the best engine out there you just have to wait 12 months for it to be built

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Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:41
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #69
^^^ exactly, good builders are a valuable commodity, therefore they will usually be busy and have some sort of a waiting list. I take this as a good sign, if I drive past a pub and it has a full car park one can usually assume its a decent pub, if its empty on the other hand...

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 8th Apr 2013 at 23:45
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #70
eliotrw wrote:

So weve decided the only off the shelf bit worth their metal are Saenz rods.


How did yoiu work that out?

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 04:51
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #71
welshpug! wrote:
eliotrw wrote:

So weve decided the only off the shelf bit worth their metal are Saenz rods.


How did yoiu work that out?


Sandy seems to approve them...

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Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 07:22
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #72
stan_306gti6 wrote:
welshpug! wrote:
eliotrw wrote:

So weve decided the only off the shelf bit worth their metal are Saenz rods.


How did you work that out?


Sandy seems to approve them...


yeah, but he didn't say they were THE ones to buy did he No Doh

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 11:06
eliotrw

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Location: Southwark

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Post #73
I'm on about off the shelf,
I'm just saying that it appears (from what i'm understanding here)
The only "off the shelf" bit thats any good is Saenz rods?
As other than iasa pistons (which havent really been mentioned)

The others are no use to "Johnny building a High boost in his garage" If the other (Better) options involve having a minimum order etc surely?

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Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 11:25
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,817

Status: Offline

Post #74
no min order on farndon or cp.

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 11:29
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #75
welshpug! wrote:
stan_306gti6 wrote:
welshpug! wrote:
eliotrw wrote:

So weve decided the only off the shelf bit worth their metal are Saenz rods.


How did you work that out?


Sandy seems to approve them...


yeah, but he didn't say they were THE ones to buy did he No Doh


No, he didn't but he didn't have any criticism of them either. Really Meirion, you're getting very picky lately. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 9th Apr 2013 at 14:02

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