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Author Subject: F1 carbon discs on a track car?
vts_tibi

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Location: Nuneaton

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Post #1
Hi Guys,

Someone in Hungary is building an E36 M3 compact for trackdays, and I just saw his pics of his brake upgrade. He is using Mitsubishi EVO calipers (so the usual 406V6 / Alfa GTV calipers) with Mintex Racing pads AND Red Bull RB2 carbon-ceramic brake discs Shock










AFAIK Mintex does not make a dedicated carbon compound. Do they need special brake pads - I would think so.

How would this setup perform on a trackday car? As used F1 discs are quite easy to come by, and I might invest in a set if this is not a bad idea.

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 21:26
midlife

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Location: Colne, Lancashire

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Post #2


I'll be watching this closelyYes

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 21:52
welshpug!

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Post #3
not sure I'd want to use those, given how much heat they need to work properly, and how fast they wear, and what happens when they do wear...

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 21:53
phillipm

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Post #4
Err, you can't use standard compound with carbon discs, that's going to end very badly, they work mainly on massive adhesion between pad and disc, not mechnical friction.
They are not like the carbon-ceramic discs on Porches, etc, they're carbon-carbon, it's VERY different, they will barely work when cold, even when hot, you need to HAMMER the pedal to get the heat up at the start of a braking phase and then back off.

If you can contact him, tell him to take them off before he kills himself.

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 21:55
eliotrw

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Post #5
Just decent brakes would be enough surely :O

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 22:02
daver6

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Post #6
make sure there's video footage of his first outing into the barriers :/

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 23:00
24seven

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Post #7
Laugh my ass off some people are idiots! "They use them in F1 so they MUST be awesome!"

You can't brake harder than the tyres can grip, so even if he can get them up to temperature and operating properly, The car won't slow down any quicker. Decent fluid and a well matched road-going disk & pad setup with decent cooling would be a far better solution.

I wonder if he's building a ram-air intake onto it as well. Whistle

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Posted 6th Feb 2013 at 23:02
vts_tibi

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Post #8
My concerns were the following:

-normal brake pads with carbon discs
-you need to keep them up to temperature to work, even the F1 cars struggle sometimes, and they are breaking from insane speeds
-these discs were designed to work on a ~600kg car. Now they have to stop a loads heavier BMW. Even if it's 1000kg, that's 400kgs more than the RB2 was. Brake disc fracture does happen on F1 cars, will be entertaining to see what happens on this one.
-what Mei said about wear - F1 discs are changed after every event (or even every session?) and they check the wear often. If they wear to minimum what will be the indication for him?
-and judging by the words of PhillipM, these simply won't work when cold, and it may be impossible to get them up to working temperature


Well, all I can say:


________________________________________

VTS
best 60' : 2.272
best 1/8 ET : 9.375 @ 74.42mph
best 1/4 ET: 14.603 @ 97.047mph

Team Trackday™
Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 07:35
allyrennie

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Post #9
Has he got DRS on his rear wing too for added performance.............

Fool, shoot him.....................

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Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 09:48
demondriverdan

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Post #10
As others have said, please to God get video footage of it as I'm sure he'll just go straight in the to the barriers from lack of braking!

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Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 10:17
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #11
Lets wait and see, this could be really interesting Smile

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Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 10:27
phillipm

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Post #12
vts_tibi wrote:
My concerns were the following:

-normal brake pads with carbon discs
-you need to keep them up to temperature to work, even the F1 cars struggle sometimes, and they are breaking from insane speeds
-these discs were designed to work on a ~600kg car. Now they have to stop a loads heavier BMW. Even if it's 1000kg, that's 400kgs more than the RB2 was. Brake disc fracture does happen on F1 cars, will be entertaining to see what happens on this one.
-what Mei said about wear - F1 discs are changed after every event (or even every session?) and they check the wear often. If they wear to minimum what will be the indication for him?
-and judging by the words of PhillipM, these simply won't work when cold, and it may be impossible to get them up to working temperature



They just won't work full stop, all normal pads will do is plough a groove into the carbon surface and generate the square root of f**kall in terms of stopping power.

At least you'll get to see a massive cloud of carbon puff out when he first stamps on the pedal, before he dies.

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Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:11
dangti6

aka JKshooter

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Post #13
Got a link to the thread?

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  • Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:17
    phillipm

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    Post #14
    If he's going to use them he needs to, at the very least, get hold of AP Racing for some correct carbon/carbon brake pads.

    He's going to cry at the cost and he's going to cry even more when he finds out they won't fit his calipers because they're over an inch thick to deal with the massive amounts of wear - which will be even worse on his car, they wear like f**k when cold - because 'cold' in carbon/carbon terms is <500*c average....and even if he sorts all that, he's going to s**t himself the first time they get damp.

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    - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:22
    phillipm

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    Post #15
    dangti6 wrote:
    Got a link to the thread?


    Better still, link him here LOL

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    - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
    Email me!
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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:27
    phillipm

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    Post #16
    Oh, and whilst I'm at it, he needs floating mountings in the bells, rigid bolting like that is liable to lead to the disc cracking.

    ________________________________________

    - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM me
    Email me!
    Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:29
    daveyboy

    aka Jim Davey

    Location: Southampton

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    Post #17
    He's f**ked.

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    R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

    Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
    Engine mount/chassis repair
    Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
    Harness bars
    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 12:41
    vts_tibi

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    Post #18
    phillipm wrote:

    At least you'll get to see a massive cloud of carbon puff out when he first stamps on the pedal, before he dies.


    Laugh my ass off

    There aren't any more pictures of this build AFAIK, he only posts these to his facebook account. And no, I will not write a single word to him again, as last night I wrote the following to him on FB:

    Hi ****,

    How much did these RB2 discs cost? I found a set for sale, but I would like to know if they are overpriced or not, hance asking about how much did you pay for them.



    reply:


    next time start with "I would like to kindly ask" , and thereafter why the f**k are you asking if you already found a set for sale?



    All this after I had my car mapped by him (I have to admit that he's good at mapping ECUs, but suck in choosing brake components), spent a whole day next to him, and we were chatting all day long, and I paid well for his work. On the way home there was no idle at all, but I still did not shout or anything, so I just tried to solve it and after loads of work there was nothing else than the ECU mapping itself I asked him to solve the issue, which we enventually did (I did all the ECU map modifications he told me over the phone). So he wasn't a kock like this before... But lately he's been working on a local TV presenter's car, so he's really high minded...

    Will have to see what will be his excuse in the barriers tho. LOL

    ________________________________________

    VTS
    best 60' : 2.272
    best 1/8 ET : 9.375 @ 74.42mph
    best 1/4 ET: 14.603 @ 97.047mph

    Team Trackday™
    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:18
    phillipm

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    Post #19
    He'll need it written on his headstone.

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    Email me!
    Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces.
    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:25
    daver6

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    Post #20
    vts_tibi wrote:


    Will have to see what will be his excuse in the barriers tho. LOL


    At least book onto the same track day so you can film it, preferably with the mic inside the car as a laughter track will greatly improve it!

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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:27
    vts_tibi

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    Post #21
    daver6 wrote:
    vts_tibi wrote:


    Will have to see what will be his excuse in the barriers tho. LOL


    At least book onto the same track day so you can film it, preferably with the mic inside the car as a laughter track will greatly improve it!


    Will have to watch out carefully when he's behind. In a a real WWII. style:

    GERMANS!!!!! Incomiiiiing! LOL

    ________________________________________

    VTS
    best 60' : 2.272
    best 1/8 ET : 9.375 @ 74.42mph
    best 1/4 ET: 14.603 @ 97.047mph

    Team Trackday™
    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:33
    anth_gti6

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    Post #22
    that's going to end so badly, even if he had the right kind of pads has he never watched an F1 race to see the conditions they are designed to take

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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:43
    Chris28190

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    Post #23
    Link him this thread. They look the part has to be said from the comments here it makes sense he's going to crash lol

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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 13:59
    barry.rs

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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 14:06
    daver6

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    Post #25
    Maybe his E36 is 500kg and 800bhp?

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    Posted 7th Feb 2013 at 14:30

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