displaying posts 1 to 23 of 23

Author Subject: Hesitation & Idle Problems
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi guys,

Bought my first GTi-6 last weekend (will get some pics up etc soon) and totally loving it! However, do have a couple of things I'd like to run past you guys...

1) When I start the car from cold each morning, it can be a little hesitant and jumpy for a couple of mins. After this it is fine, no problems at all and no lights show on dash, just seems to be first couple of mins each morning. Any suggestions?

2) Also, on a couple of occasions, have started the car in the morning (when cold) and when I've pulled up at the first junction, it has dropped in revs and cut out. Started fine after. It has only done it to me twice from memory, and only when it was cold. But once it did cut out, it started again fine and didn't do it for the rest of the journey.

The revs idle nicely most of the time, but every now and then if I go to park up, I put my foot on the clutch and I'm sure the revs sometimes pick up momentarily and then die back down again. It could just be me, but I'm certain it pops up and settles again.

As above, the hesitation and cutting out has only happened when the car was first started from cold, and within a couple of mins it is running absolutely sweet and doesn't cause any problems at all, apart from the idle sometimes dipping and coming back up again. But once the car is sat still and the idle has settled, it is fine.

Could all these problems be linked?

Appreciate any help guys Smile
Posted 13th Aug 2012 at 13:45
eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #2
ash j wrote:
Hi guys,

Bought my first GTi-6 last weekend (will get some pics up etc soon) and totally loving it! However, do have a couple of things I'd like to run past you guys...

1) When I start the car from cold each morning, it can be a little hesitant and jumpy for a couple of mins. After this it is fine, no problems at all and no lights show on dash, just seems to be first couple of mins each morning. Any suggestions?

2) Also, on a couple of occasions, have started the car in the morning (when cold) and when I've pulled up at the first junction, it has dropped in revs and cut out. Started fine after. It has only done it to me twice from memory, and only when it was cold. But once it did cut out, it started again fine and didn't do it for the rest of the journey.

The revs idle nicely most of the time, but every now and then if I go to park up, I put my foot on the clutch and I'm sure the revs sometimes pick up momentarily and then die back down again. It could just be me, but I'm certain it pops up and settles again.

As above, the hesitation and cutting out has only happened when the car was first started from cold, and within a couple of mins it is running absolutely sweet and doesn't cause any problems at all, apart from the idle sometimes dipping and coming back up again. But once the car is sat still and the idle has settled, it is fine.

Could all these problems be linked?

Appreciate any help guys Smile


Number 1 sounds like the coolant temp sensor?
I used to have this problem too and it went when i replaced that.
Number 2 sounds liek the ICV to me (They are a (MEGA)common fault)

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg
Posted 13th Aug 2012 at 13:51
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #3
I agree with the above. Yes

New coolant temp sensor is about £13, so not too bad. The ICV will most likely need a clean, it's a very simple task and is explained in great detail in the FAQ section. Thumbs up

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 13th Aug 2012 at 14:17
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #4
Cheers for the replies people Smile

I'm going to try cleaning the ICV before buying a new one. Can anybody link me to the FAQ for cleaning it? Had a look through FAQ section but couldn't see anything (probably me being blind!)

Also, which coolant temp sensor should I change? Green or blue one? From memory, one is for the ECU and one for the inside temp gauge?

Thanks guys
Posted 14th Aug 2012 at 09:27
BlackSix

Regular

Location: northampton

Registered: 30 Jul 2012

Posts: 156

Status: Offline

Post #5
blue is for the gauge green for the ecu.

its 19mm

ICAV, 2x10mm bolts, unplug it and it comes out. undo the 2 screws holding it to the housing and clean away Smile then stick some good grease in the middle and bobs your teapot

Posted 14th Aug 2012 at 13:10
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #6
Have changed the coolant temp sensor (green one) but no difference!

Doesn't always do it, but more often than not, when car is started from cold in the morning, go to put foot down the first time and it hesitates a few times like a misfire! Then it clears and is absolutely fine!

Any ideas? Thinking a coil might be on its way out? Seems to be fine if started once already run and warm.

Cheers
Posted 27th Aug 2012 at 22:45
24seven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Derby

Registered: 05 Oct 2005

Posts: 6,221

Status: Offline

Post #7
If cleaning and/or replacing the ICV doesn't fix it try changing the MAP sensor - the long, black, plastic sensor beside the top of the throttle body, held in by 1 bolt.

________________________________________

Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 27th Aug 2012 at 23:29
mattgti6phase2

Seasoned Pro

Location: inside my 6 abusing the tarmac!!

Registered: 16 Jul 2010

Posts: 2,371

Status: Offline

Post #8
If the map sensor is f**ked the engine will stall as it cant measure the pressure In the inlet. That provides info such as air density etc so the Ecu can work out what it needs to do with the fuel/air mix.

Unplug that sensor and if the car stalls then it's working but I'm sure if it's f**ked the engine wouldn't run anyway.

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 00:37
24seven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Derby

Registered: 05 Oct 2005

Posts: 6,221

Status: Offline

Post #9
The MAP sensor works along side the throttle position sensor to determine the load on the engine. The engine will run, albeit temperamentally, without it plugged in.

________________________________________

Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 01:01
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

Status: Offline

Post #10
Did you disconnect the battery to let the ECU reset?Wink

Otherwise it could be the sign of early headgasket failure,coolant leaks into the cylinder/s,and wets the plug/sThumbs down

common first sign of the gasket going on theseSad

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 07:23
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #11
coskev wrote:
Did you disconnect the battery to let the ECU reset?Wink

Otherwise it could be the sign of early headgasket failure,coolant leaks into the cylinder/s,and wets the plug/sThumbs down

common first sign of the gasket going on theseSad


+2 Sad

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 11:58
mattgti6phase2

Seasoned Pro

Location: inside my 6 abusing the tarmac!!

Registered: 16 Jul 2010

Posts: 2,371

Status: Offline

Post #12
Strange, if I disconnect the map sensor on my engine it stall within a couple of seconds.

As above tho HG could be a possibility Sad

________________________________________

Team Nile 6 Superman
Team: 40.2 MPG Smile
5 x a 306 owner!
currently abusing type r's in a town near you ™ Wink
I truely live for the 306 ®
Build date: 29th October 1997 Wednesday's car
midweek madness Tee hee
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 13:11
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #13
24seven wrote:
The MAP sensor works along side the throttle position sensor to determine the load on the engine. The engine will run, albeit temperamentally, without it plugged in.


Yes it will run, but it won't idle well/at all. Wink

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 14:37
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #14
Hoping it is not head gasket! Although if it was, then good excuse to do cambelt and fit billet pulleys etc.

How would I know if it is head gasket?

Am going to give ICV a clean anyway as the revs still do jump up and down, but thought the hesitation wouldn't have anything to do with ICV.

Cheers guys
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 16:25
coskev

Seasoned Pro

Location: Oswestry

Registered: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 3,132

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Post #15
ash j wrote:
Hoping it is not head gasket! Although if it was, then good excuse to do cambelt and fit billet pulleys etc.

How would I know if it is head gasket?

Am going to give ICV a clean anyway as the revs still do jump up and down, but thought the hesitation wouldn't have anything to do with ICV.

Cheers guys


You could remove the plugs in the morning after standing over night and see if there is any condensation/damp on them before starting engineThumbs up

Or a 'sniff' test of the gasses in the coolant system by a garage is pretty accurateYes

Has the car got any history of the head being removed?

As the original gasket will now be over 10 years old,and they rot due to the fact they are multi layer steel gaskets as standard on this engineWink

________________________________________

Red GTB1756 powered Fabia VRS daily driver,LBSC Gti6 eater........

Mac1 ZR R1 kit car build in progress.
Posted 28th Aug 2012 at 21:28
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #16
When the engine is started from cold do you get excessive white smoke out the back? Dunno

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 09:47
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #17
No, can't say I've ever seen any smoke at all to be honest.
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 12:06
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

Status: Offline

Post #18
Unlikely to be coolant getting into the cylinders then...Hmm

Does the coolant level ever appear to drop and then you need to top it up? Unsure

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 13:30
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #19
Nope, never needed to top it up.

I put some in the other day, as I changed the temp sensor so obviously lost a bit of coolant when I took it out to put a new one in.

Otherwise it seems fine.
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 14:12
ash j

Regular

Location: Fareham

Registered: 02 Mar 2011

Posts: 415

Status: Offline

Post #20
And it is literally only the first time when started from cold that it does it. Go to floor it and it just stutters a bit, sometimes when you go to floor it the second time it might also do it, but within seconds it clears and is fine.

I will be cleaning the ICV in the next few days. I noticed that there is a split in one of the air filter pipes. You have the big pipe which goes from the throttle body to the air filter housing. Then you have a small pipe which goes from the ICV (I think) and joins the bigger pipe. Where it joins the bigger pipe, I noticed last night that it is split and comes away from the big pipe, which might explain my idle issues!

I have an induction kit to fit at the weekend anyway, along with a K&N style crankcase breather, so that will get rid of that split in the current pipe.

Cheers
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 14:16
eliotrw

Seasoned Pro

Location: Southwark

Registered: 18 Jul 2010

Posts: 4,864

Status: Offline

Post #21
I had a split pipe too.
There quite an easy way of fixing them which i will explain.
Where the little pipe joins to the big one, it will likely be spliting where they actually touch.
Tear the little one off fully so you are left with it completely detached.
get a serated blade, and cut two small 2cm lines outwardly on opposite side of the hole in the big pipe.
This will allow you to force the small pipe through the big one so that it is held in place.
Get some thick tape of sealant can seal the outside of the tube.
Wait for it to dry.
Job jobbed.

________________________________________

Ex- Phase 3 China GTi-6 T-Reg
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 15:13
24seven

Seasoned Pro

Location: Derby

Registered: 05 Oct 2005

Posts: 6,221

Status: Offline

Post #22
A split in that pipewon't have any effect, other than letting unfiltered air in when idling. You could take it off all together and it won't make a difference.

________________________________________

Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660
Posted 29th Aug 2012 at 18:26
lewisdmz

Senior User

Location: plymouth

Registered: 25 Jul 2009

Posts: 504

Status: Offline

Post #23
ash j wrote:
And it is literally only the first time when started from cold that it does it. Go to floor it and it just stutters a bit, sometimes when you go to floor it the second time it might also do it, but within seconds it clears and is fine.

I will be cleaning the ICV in the next few days. I noticed that there is a split in one of the air filter pipes. You have the big pipe which goes from the throttle body to the air filter housing. Then you have a small pipe which goes from the ICV (I think) and joins the bigger pipe. Where it joins the bigger pipe, I noticed last night that it is split and comes away from the big pipe, which might explain my idle issues!

I have an induction kit to fit at the weekend anyway, along with a K&N style crankcase breather, so that will get rid of that split in the current pipe.

Cheers


Any updates on this? My ICV will intermittently fail completely about once every 2 months and the car will stall at a junction, the rest of the time it is not quite right e.g. the revs will fall below tickover then rise again before settling.

In the past 2 days a new problem has arisen whereby for the first 30 seconds or so the car will stutter a bit and not increase in revs and then suddenly take off. I have a theory (perhaps some people will be able to chuck in their thoughts) that the ICV is on it's last legs and sometimes doesn't operate so the air mixture is completely wrong to what the ECU thinks it should be.

Head was rebuilt 2 years ago so very unlikely to be head gasket. MAP sensor has been checked with a multimeter and seems to be ok. Other thing is TPS which I haven't had a chance to check yet, seems unlikely though as it runs like a dream otherwise. Also passed MOT 2 weeks ago to rule out lambda.
Posted 7th Sep 2012 at 15:42

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