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Author Subject: 306 GTI6 or Civic Type R
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #51
SteviePut wrote:
jeffers wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
jeffers wrote:
redrallye wrote:
Well the longer you leave it the quicker both mine are going to get Whistle

I'm just waiting for my pistons so hopefully il have them this week then if work allows me enough time off il be built fitted run in and mapped for the forum trackday, plus a little trip to knockhill in the middle just to make the timing interesting! LOL


I'd like to do Knockhill Whistle

Knockhill is £63! Shock hard to say no for that!


When?

July 15th iirc!

________________________________________

Team Running Engine again!
Team Negative Camber!
My Budget track engine build thread!
Now appearing at a Trackday near you!!Hyper Hyper
Posted 26th Mar 2012 at 23:40
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

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Post #52
Sorry mate, who are you booking/booked with??

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 26th Mar 2012 at 23:42
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

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Post #53
And where are you staying?

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 26th Mar 2012 at 23:42
jeffers Forum Admin

Location: Leeds

Registered: 14 Dec 2003

Posts: 3,702

Status: Offline

Post #54
SteviePut wrote:
Sorry mate, who are you booking/booked with??

Knockhill direct on there website, but I'm stayin with a mate in Aberdeen all week so it's a little easier for me like!

________________________________________

Team Running Engine again!
Team Negative Camber!
My Budget track engine build thread!
Now appearing at a Trackday near you!!Hyper Hyper
Posted 26th Mar 2012 at 23:43
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

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Post #55
jeffers wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
Sorry mate, who are you booking/booked with??

Knockhill direct on there website, but I'm stayin with a mate in Aberdeen all week so it's a little easier for me like!


Well yeah just a wee bit easier Laugh my ass off

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 00:07
123456

Regular

Location: Intheends

Registered: 17 Nov 2010

Posts: 182

Status: Offline

Post #56
If both vehicles were brand new off the shelf the 6 would be the more desirable vehicle a £1000 wrecked 6 vs a bomb proof type R would then make the R more desirable...

________________________________________

Aka Manstoner

Aka Clio dumper

Aka PrinceofPeugeot

Aka Decat raspberrys
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 07:52
thewho07

Regular

Location: Scotland

Registered: 11 Aug 2009

Posts: 288

Status: Offline

Post #57
I had a 1999 type r before the 6. The type r is better built, faster, and handled slightly better. Wouldn't say it was more reliable, as my 6 has been spot on.

Are they worth 4k? No way. Buy a well looked after 6 for £1000 and you'll have just as much fun!
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 09:48
Mikey S

Junior User

Location: coventry

Registered: 11 Jan 2012

Posts: 93

Status: Offline

Post #58
ive driven both and while the ctr on vtec is addictive it gets abit tiresome having to thrash the arse off it to get any decent progress out of it. if your friend is coming from a 205 mi16 to a ctr he is in for a very big shock indeed. my own mi16 205 would run rings around a ctr without trying. would be a 6 for me anyday, much rarer sight at maccy d'sRoll eyes LOL

________________________________________

Onyx Black '6, 1997.
Graphite Grey MI16 205, 1990.
Hanover Green Pajero 2.8, 1995.
Midnight Sky Galaxy TDCI, 2011.

Team: Dented Quarterpanel....
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 15:33
oldbrownshoe

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Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

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Post #59
thewho07 wrote:
I had a 1999 type r before the 6. The type r is blah blah blah, and handled slightly better. Wouldn't say it was more reliable, as my 6 has been spot on.

Are they worth 4k? No way. Buy a well looked after 6 for £1000 and you'll have just as much fun!


I find this statement provocative.

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 15:42
gazzerdaman

Seasoned Pro

Location: Chelmsford

Registered: 25 Sep 2003

Posts: 10,283

Status: Offline

Post #60
The CTR came out just after Peugeot canned the GTi 6 - it is at least a whole generation (if not two) ahead of the 306 (The 306 was launched in 93 remember) in terms of car design

Was highly praised by the motoring press - won Hot Hatch of the Year on numerous occasions (much like the GTi 6)

Both good cars, guess it depends on what you mate is really after

________________________________________

Gary

Cherry Red GTi 6
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 16:14
oldbrownshoe

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Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

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Post #61
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 16:23
redrallye

rimjaw

Location: At the limit of adhesion

Registered: 09 Aug 2004

Posts: 28,753

Status: Offline

Post #62
Change the suspension set up on it and its easily rectified Thumbs up

________________________________________

Team "310bhp/tonne" Devil Devil

Team "Old Skool Kool" Happy

Team "Faster than a standard 6. No really, both of them are"
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 20:55
oldbrownshoe

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Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

Status: Offline

Post #63
It's not always the suspension set up
even so, its not simple to find the right set-up,
it's much easier to upgrade engine output of great handling car then upgrade mediocre handling car with great engine,
Whiteline have small catalog for the thing below :

"It wasn't until after testing that we discovered a tweak that
should have a large impact on slalom speeds and is, subjectively, the
single biggest improvement in handling precision and driving
enjoyment of anything we've done. Best of all, it costs $40. All
Subarus have vague, sloppy steering at turn-in. Once you've committed
to a corner, the steering is usually very linear and direct, but that
first moment when you're picking your line is fraught with
uncertainty. At the speeds the STi is capable of, this trait is
downright frightening. The problem is that the steering rack is
mounted in bushings that appear to be made of a proprietary mix of
Teflon and KY Jelly. Turn the steering wheel right and the first
thing that happens is the steering rack slides left. Only when the
rack settles into place does steering feel return. The stickier your
tires, or the older your car's steering rack bushings, the worse this
problem gets. A simple set of polyurethane steering rack bushings
from Whiteline makes a ridiculous difference in how the car drives.
Steering precision is vastly improved and turn-in is so much sharper,
we almost ran over the curb on the inside of the first corner we went
around. There is no down side. Is anybody at Subaru reading this?"

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 22:37
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

Status: Offline

Post #64
oldbrownshoe wrote:
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.


If you want to experience real steering feel you really should drive a Lotus Whistle

Seriously the pug isn't a patch on itRazz

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 22:43
redrallye

rimjaw

Location: At the limit of adhesion

Registered: 09 Aug 2004

Posts: 28,753

Status: Offline

Post #65
Mine is sorted by soneone who knows what they're doing, trust me you'll need a charged 6 to get anywhere near mine Thumbs up

________________________________________

Team "310bhp/tonne" Devil Devil

Team "Old Skool Kool" Happy

Team "Faster than a standard 6. No really, both of them are"
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 22:44
SteviePut

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Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

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Post #66
Has yours got a diff Ed? An LSD I meanSmile (sorry can't remember)

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 22:47
oldbrownshoe

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Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

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Post #67
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.


If you want to experience real steering feel you really should drive a Lotus Whistle

Seriously the pug isn't a patch on itRazz


Yeh, you probably right but
I thought the discussion is limited to the hot hatch space, not the roadster hyper-space.

BTW roadster chassis stiffness is always lower then closed shell chassis that in turn have influence on the steering response.

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 22:56
redrallye

rimjaw

Location: At the limit of adhesion

Registered: 09 Aug 2004

Posts: 28,753

Status: Offline

Post #68
SteviePut wrote:
Has yours got a diff Ed? An LSD I meanSmile (sorry can't remember)


Yeah, but that doesn't help the feeling that oldbrownshoe is on about. Just makes it grab at every imperfection on the road under acceleration LOL

________________________________________

Team "310bhp/tonne" Devil Devil

Team "Old Skool Kool" Happy

Team "Faster than a standard 6. No really, both of them are"
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:10
heidi6

Regular

Location: Cornwall

Registered: 30 Nov 2011

Posts: 409

Status: Offline

Post #69
Mikey S wrote:
ive driven both and while the ctr on vtec is addictive it gets abit tiresome having to thrash the arse off it to get any decent progress out of it. if your friend is coming from a 205 mi16 to a ctr he is in for a very big shock indeed. my own mi16 205 would run rings around a ctr without trying. would be a 6 for me anyday, much rarer sight at maccy d'sRoll eyes LOL


I think he still wants a bit of go without ringing the tits out of it tbh. He's always been a pug man so reckon he may sway that way. Guess will get him to try a few CTR's, see what he thinks. Will let him drive my '6 to the viewings, set the benchmark Thumbs up

________________________________________

I live work (to pay) for the 306

Phase 3 Astor. Built on Wednesday, 12th April 2000 in France.

Years of 'Creative Maintenance' mean this car is now much lighter and slightly more 'race' specced... Tee hee
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:14
oldbrownshoe

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Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

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Post #70
redrallye wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
Has yours got a diff Ed? An LSD I meanSmile (sorry can't remember)


Yeah, but that doesn't help the feeling that oldbrownshoe is on about. Just makes it grab at every imperfection on the road under acceleration LOL

Honda used the same Quaife ATB diff that used in the first Focus RS ?

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:17
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

Status: Offline

Post #71
oldbrownshoe wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.


If you want to experience real steering feel you really should drive a Lotus Whistle

Seriously the pug isn't a patch on itRazz


Yeh, you probably right but
I thought the discussion is limited to the hot hatch space, not the roadster hyper-space.

BTW roadster chassis stiffness is always lower then closed shell chassis that in turn have influence on the steering response.



Erm I think you'll find that to be incorrect in the case of the Elise/Exige variants. It's known to be very stiff perhaps amongst the stiffest

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:25
redrallye

rimjaw

Location: At the limit of adhesion

Registered: 09 Aug 2004

Posts: 28,753

Status: Offline

Post #72
oldbrownshoe wrote:
redrallye wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
Has yours got a diff Ed? An LSD I meanSmile (sorry can't remember)


Yeah, but that doesn't help the feeling that oldbrownshoe is on about. Just makes it grab at every imperfection on the road under acceleration LOL

Honda used the same Quaife ATB diff that used in the first Focus RS ?


Er, not sure about that. Mine is a JDM one, can't see that being the same as a Ford one Erm?

________________________________________

Team "310bhp/tonne" Devil Devil

Team "Old Skool Kool" Happy

Team "Faster than a standard 6. No really, both of them are"
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:27
oldbrownshoe

Seasoned Pro

Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

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Post #73
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.


If you want to experience real steering feel you really should drive a Lotus Whistle

Seriously the pug isn't a patch on itRazz


Yeh, you probably right but
I thought the discussion is limited to the hot hatch space, not the roadster hyper-space.

BTW roadster chassis stiffness is always lower then closed shell chassis that in turn have influence on the steering response.



Erm I think you'll find that to be incorrect in the case of the Elise/Exige variants. It's known to be very stiff perhaps amongst the stiffest

haha, the Elise have very poor chassis stiffness value, at least in the last decade standarts.
it's just 10,000 Nm/deg, exactly one third of the RX8 chassis and much lower then the 24,500 Nm/deg of the MINI chassis.

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:39
SteviePut

Seasoned Pro

Location: Down south

Registered: 20 Oct 2005

Posts: 13,637

Status: Offline

Post #74
oldbrownshoe wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
SteviePut wrote:
oldbrownshoe wrote:
I didn't found yet a Jap hot hatch with steering feedback as good as you get in the 306 or the ZX16V.


If you want to experience real steering feel you really should drive a Lotus Whistle

Seriously the pug isn't a patch on itRazz


Yeh, you probably right but
I thought the discussion is limited to the hot hatch space, not the roadster hyper-space.

BTW roadster chassis stiffness is always lower then closed shell chassis that in turn have influence on the steering response.



Erm I think you'll find that to be incorrect in the case of the Elise/Exige variants. It's known to be very stiff perhaps amongst the stiffest

haha, the Elise have very poor chassis stiffness value, at least for the last decade.
it's just 10,000 Nm/deg, exactly one third of the RX8 chassis and much lower then the 24,500 Nm/deg of the MINI chassis.


Really? I'm shocked tbh.

________________________________________

My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:41
oldbrownshoe

Seasoned Pro

Location: Holon Israel

Registered: 08 Aug 2008

Posts: 1,795

Status: Offline

Post #75
Well...be my guest, take a pick in this list :

Alfa 159 - 31.400Nm/degree
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Aston Martin Vanquish 28,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti EB110 - 19,000 Nm/degree
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
BMW X5 (2004) - 23,100 Nm/degree
BMW E90: 22,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Corvette C5 9,100 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg - 28.100 Nm/degree
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
Maserati QP - 18.000 nm/degree
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mercedes SL - With top down 17,000 Nm/deg, with top up 21,000 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda F - 27,000 Nm/degree
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree
Rolls-Royce Phantom - 40,500 Nm/degree
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg
Audi A2: 11,900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Carrera Type 997: 33,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
VW Phaeton - 37,000 Nm/degree
VW Passat (2006) - 32,400 Nm/degree
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg
Mazda RX8 - 30,000 Nm/degree
Saab 9-3 Sportcombi - 21,000 Nm/degree
Opel Astra - 12,000 Nm/degree
Land rover Freelander 2 - 28,000 Nm/degree
Lamborghini Countach 2,600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 3d 19.600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 5d 17.900 Nm/deg

________________________________________

French military victories?
Did you mean French military defeats?
Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 23:44

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