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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 50
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| Author | Subject: Brake bleeding-how do you know when the air is out? |
 flynn_
Junior User  Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #1
Well I bled one brake and then as I went to do the other ones there is fluid at all of the bleed valves without bubbles so does that mean all the air has come out of one bleed valve? Fluid at a valve means that there is no air in there, right? Yet when I pump the brake pedal with the resovoir cap off I can see the fluid go down and then come back up as the air compresses and decompresses? This is after a full drain and refill BTW. |
 Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 03:12
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mr swampy s16
**BAD SELLER**  Location: out and about Registered: 22 Oct 2003 Posts: 10,550 Status: Offline |
Post #2
The level will move when you press the pedal as the fluid pushes the pistons out in the calipers.Now dont take this the wrong way but i realy think you should let a garage check the brakes over as you realy dont seem to have a clue what your doing. |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 06:54
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midlife
Seasoned Pro  Location: Colne, Lancashire Registered: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 7,544 Status: Offline |
Post #3
Probably for the first time ever I completely agree with Mrs Wampy  ________________________________________ Get used to seeing the yellow one !!! Team 330™ Team "no front end or engine" Team "LIMITED EDITION" I live for the 306 sticker  Team 0-60 in 6.44 & standing qtr in 14.808 @ 94.55mph all with std engine 203bhp Corolla T-Sport daily driver stealthier than Kwai Chang Caine |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 07:25
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gilesy
Seasoned Pro  Location: Greenwich - in that London Registered: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5,133 Status: Offline |
Post #4
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 08:10
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flynn_
Junior User Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #5
Sorry guys I think you have misunderstood me. Yes, I know the fluid will move when you push the brake pedal but if you have to pump it to build up the pressure that means theres air in the system and the fluid shouldn't go down a fair way and then come back up after a few seconds now should it?As I understand it that is because the air is compressing and then decompressing in the system, I have bled brakes before and this hasn't happened when they are fully bled up, theres just a little bit of movement in the level and it comes back instantly when there is no air in the system and you don't have to pump it either. I'm not very articulate with words but I have seen a lot dummer questions on this forum where people haven't critised like I said my posts make me seem dummer than I am because I am not good with words. |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 12:22
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gilesy
Seasoned Pro Location: Greenwich - in that London Registered: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5,133 Status: Offline |
Post #6
flynn_ wrote: Yet when I pump the brake pedal with the resovoir cap off I can see the fluid go down and then come back up as the air compresses and decompresses? Do you not think the fluid level will change as the pistons move in and out? How do you think brakes operate. You are correct in saying fluid (with no bubbles) at a valve will generally mean there is no air in the system but as you are using pipes to push fluid to the brake units then there will be a corresponding drop in the fluid level. If you can't understand this then I really dont think you should be playing with brakes |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 16:57
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dangti6
aka JKshooter  Location: Taunton, Somerset Registered: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 10,305 Status: Offline |
Post #7
Agree with mrs wampy.If you aren't 100% confident what you are doing, pay a garage some bear tokens to bleed the system. ________________________________________  |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 17:11
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gnrlee
Forum Admin Location: Leeds Registered: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 8,878 Status: Offline |
Post #8
dangti6 wrote: Agree with mrs wampy. If you aren't 100% confident what you are doing, pay a garage some bear tokens to bleed the system. here here, it's not a hard job to do but it's one you'll pay dearly for if you f*ck it up! get them checked out properly!  ________________________________________ Proud Member of the ASTOR Owners Club |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 18:04
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tvrfan007
Seasoned Pro  Location: In the garage Registered: 29 May 2005 Posts: 3,488 Status: Offline |
Post #9
He can hardly drive it there if he's been fiddling now can he seeing as you're all telling him he's f*cked it up.  buy a one man bleeder from Halfords if you don't have a friend to help. From a full drain of the system i'd be surprised if you nailed it within a litre if you aren't pressure bleeding. Make sure you fully retract all brake pistons to remove the air from them, then keep going. You'll find there is air in the ABS if you have it, and when you've got it drivable take it down a gravel car park and cycle it 30 times or so and then drive it home and re-bleed. ________________________________________ I'm Si btw Night Blue VW Golf GTD Bianca LBSC Rallye - Track/Road Slag Project Thread Sparkling Silver Mini Cooper D - Super Dooper  - (The other half's wheels) |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 22:15
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berger
Seasoned Pro  Location: Bathurst Registered: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 1,068 Status: Offline |
Post #10
I use the Gunsons pressure bleeder system, combined with pumping the brake pedal at the same time.This way you get a constant slow flow as well as an intermitant higher rate of flow which can help dislodge any bubbles. Replaced both my rear calipers yesterday and had it driveable after only one bleed. ________________________________________ Bang'in 7 gram rocks!I have one gear, GO! |
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Posted 26th Jun 2011 at 23:17
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flynn_
Junior User Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #11
Thanks for the less patronising replies lads I've bled it up now and taken it on a few drives, the pedal does feel soft but I have never had to pump it so I doubt there is much air in there. I've tried with a bleed kit but I have found the gravity method far simpler, not to mention less wasteful! I'll try to gravity bleed it again next weekend but if no air comes out then I will try using the bleed kit and bleed through loads of fluid to make sure theres nothing in there. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 01:02
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gilesy
Seasoned Pro Location: Greenwich - in that London Registered: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5,133 Status: Offline |
Post #12
Well its hardly patronising. If you don't know what you are doing with brakes then its a massive safety issue.Anyway hope its all well, just try and get a mate to help you doing the pumping bit, or get a one way valve kit from halfrauds and do it that way. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 02:43
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flynn_
Junior User Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #13
Yes I understand but I've bled the brakes before and I'm still here so... As I said I am not very articulate so I don't word my posts very well but I thought it would be okay as I have seen dumber questions asked and people not get berated over it. I will try again with the gravity bleeding and then use the bleed kit if that doesn't get the air out. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 12:39
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owain
Seasoned Pro  Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #14
In answer to what I think you're asking, no - just because there are no more visible bubbles does not mean you've bled them all out. There can be bubbles trapped in the calipers, ABS system and odd corners here and there, as well as tiny bubbles you can't see. If I've had them fully off I tend to bleed them through with an entire litre or so of cheapo brake fluid to make sure there are no bubbles at all, then replace it with decent RBF660 stuff. We did the brakes on a mate's car and after bleeding they were absolutely awful. Drove it around for a couple of days, and bled it through again. Didn't see any bubbles come out, but the brakes were then solid as a rock. There can be tiny bubbles you can't see, and there can be boiled brake fluid, neither of which you can get rid of without flushing the lot through. ________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 12:45
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flynn_
Junior User Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #15
Alright I will get another can of brake fluid and bleed some more through. Thank you for the help. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 17:42
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gilesy
Seasoned Pro Location: Greenwich - in that London Registered: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5,133 Status: Offline |
Post #16
I normally get a couple of litres and run that through with the one way valve kit. Don't use the low air pressure thing to attach to a tyre as air in the system is bad juju |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 20:49
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro  Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #17
get an eezee bleed kit. real easy job as all you do is crack off the nipples!________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 21:07
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owain
Seasoned Pro Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #18
I had a right mission with mine, couldn't get a cap that fitted properly, so it kept just blowing it off and making a right mess.________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 21:09
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #19
gilesy wrote: I normally get a couple of litres and run that through with the one way valve kit. Don't use the low air pressure thing to attach to a tyre as air in the system is bad juju Thats a silly thing to say, it will only put air into the system if you let the reservoir run dry while bleeding and that holds true for any method of bleeding. I have an EzBleed kit and it works perfectly, however I don't think you can beat one person bleeding and another on the pedal doing the pumping. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 21:25
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #20
owain wrote: I had a right mission with mine, couldn't get a cap that fitted properly, so it kept just blowing it off and making a right mess. mine just fitted straight on fine, although mines remote mounted with a kit car type resovior due to somone welding a feking great cage through the bulkhead  so i guess a different size cap________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 27th Jun 2011 at 22:25
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flynn_
Junior User Location: Faketown Registered: 29 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Status: Offline |
Post #21
What do people think of the gravity method? |
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Posted 28th Jun 2011 at 02:05
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berger
Seasoned Pro Location: Bathurst Registered: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 1,068 Status: Offline |
Post #22
owain wrote: I had a right mission with mine, couldn't get a cap that fitted properly, so it kept just blowing it off and making a right mess. Strange, my Gunsons came with a cap that fitted perfectly! Just have to check it has sealed properly before putting fluid into the bottle and away you go. ________________________________________ Bang'in 7 gram rocks!I have one gear, GO! |
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Posted 28th Jun 2011 at 02:31
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footah212
Senior User  Location: Paisley Registered: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 861 Status: Offline |
Post #23
I'm no expert but if your having trouble with getting the gunson's cap getting an air tight seal then wrap the threads on ther reservoir with plumbers ptfe tape. You should get a good seal then.Also whenever i have done it i have found that what others are saying about re bleeding after a few miles seems to work for me. I have never been able to find a bleed nipple on the ABS unit btw. ________________________________________ Phase 2 Blaze GTi6PS3 - Black Ops 2 Engine crane for hire Renfrewshire |
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Posted 28th Jun 2011 at 03:00
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owain
Seasoned Pro Location: Essex Registered: 20 May 2009 Posts: 9,185 Status: Offline |
Post #24
No the cap was badly wrong, wrong thread and size I think. Probably easiest just get a proper cap from someone who's breaking and attach the pipe to that. ________________________________________ Membership expiring soon, get in contact on our new little forum project. |
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Posted 28th Jun 2011 at 03:02
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footah212
Senior User Location: Paisley Registered: 16 Sep 2010 Posts: 861 Status: Offline |
Post #25
I got 3 different sizes of lids with my Gunson's iirc.Didn't you?? Is your reservoir bendix? ________________________________________ Phase 2 Blaze GTi6PS3 - Black Ops 2 Engine crane for hire Renfrewshire |
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Posted 28th Jun 2011 at 03:08
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