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Author Subject: GTI6 engine in 405 wont fire.
405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

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Post #1
Hi.
This might not be the right place to ask, but Ill try anyway Smile. My project is at and end. Engine is in and cranking, but it just wont start...

Got no spark or fuel.

Fuel pump primes, and theres a short blip of 12v on injectors and coils, then its dead under cranking...

Got it all wired up the correct way I believe (yes, the loom has got live from alternator). Crank sensor was working when I split the gearbox of my old engine a couple weeks ago... Cam sensor is unknown. Its there... LOL Multirelay has got power on all the right places...

Is this a locked ECU? Dry The engine and loom is from a late GTI-6 I believe. ECU is bought from a member on this forum.

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:15
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bobdylan_55

Seasoned Pro

Location: derby

Registered: 28 Mar 2009

Posts: 1,466

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Post #2
sounds like you only have a 12v to injectors and such when its on 2nd click and not on cranking.
Basically you need constant 12v to the injectors, ecu, ignition, fuel pump etc whilst the key is in the cranking position aswell as in the 2nd click position.

________________________________________

309 GTi6-T
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:25
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bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

Posts: 13,752

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Post #3
ECU is locked out

Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:31
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #4
bigbadbowen wrote:
ECU is locked out



How are you so sure? Because it cuts power to the injectors/coils?Huh?

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:40
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paul_13

Senior User

Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #5
ECU locked by the sound of it.
Did you remove all the immobiliser wires on the loom?

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:43
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #6
The complete smaller 2nd multiplug is chopped of and insulated with shrink wrap.

I might add that the ECU is getting constant 12v as MIL is constantly on during 2nd click and cranking.

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:47
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bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #7
If your 100% sure its wired correctly then def locked ECU ?

Your assuming its unlocked when you bought it ?

Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 03:55
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #8
Im pretty sure its wired correctly. All the wires numbers is the same apart from a few between 306 and 405 mk2. The most important ones:

Starter 100 is hooked to the same wire code on the car (deffo working).
Fuel pump 120, the same (thats deffo working)
Hooked up the grey CC1 air bag control switched live to grey CC7 which is the 405 switched live.

There isnt really a switched live on the GTI6 loom is there, just the permanent live that goes on the alternator + right?

Lambda switched live I have not yet connected up. Will that cause it not to start? I wouldnt think so (got a two plug lambda that I need to slice up).

Anyhow I used this http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=114881 as a guide.

And yes the seller stated it was unlocked from a 306 Rallye.

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 04:09
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bigbadbowen

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Post #9
Earths all good ?

Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 04:10
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #10
Earth that screws on gearbox is connected and earth to the multiplug connected up. Is there any others?

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 04:13
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bigbadbowen

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Post #11
Don't think so ?

I'd say try another ecu but get one that includes the chip and box thing ?
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 04:25
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peetypug

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Location: Spooning marksorrento205

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Post #12
i had the same on my first 205 gti6, ecu was locked
i also had a xsara vts that did the same, was a right pain in the arse Sad

________________________________________

Cherry rallye - DOB Thursday 29/04/1999
Team Rallye - the leaner, meaner, better looking sister of the GTI6 Big grin
roland rat wrote:
You sir either live for the 6 or have a mental retardation to still be repairing this!

The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so fecking temperamental. 
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 04:59
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bigbadbowen

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Post #13
Contact Rich W for a proper unlocked ecu Wink
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 05:04
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #14
Well I got the possibility of checking this ECU on a 406 thats running GTI6 management tommorow probably so that will give a inidicator. Cant understand anything other than its locked or borked in some way. Ill deffo get one from Rich if this ones a dud. Got his flywheel mounted up allready :-)

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 05:15
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

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Post #15
And does anyone know if leaving the evap canister disconnected have any effect? I removed the complete system and the plug is disconnected...

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 14:59
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paulvancraen

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Location: Breda

Registered: 24 Jun 2009

Posts: 83

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Post #16
quote:
There isnt really a switched live on the GTI6 loom is there, just the permanent live that goes on the alternator + right?


Offcourse There's a switched+ on the gti6 loom!!! How else would the loom know if you turned over the key???
You should see permanent+ on 4 pins of the multirelais. And you should get switched+ on 1 pin of the multirelais. I can't remember the pin numbers, but I thought the switched+ was pin 14, not sure though.

The switched live is Pin 5 on the 23-pin plug on a Phase2 gti6 loom.
Disconnecting the evap canister doesn't matter.

Good luck Wink


Regards, Paul
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 15:21
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

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Post #17
Im just bad at english hehe. What I meant that there is a constant 12v feed to the loom on the GTI6 contrary to the 405 where its turned on when key is turned.

And yes as stated CC1 switched live from multiplug is connected up.

On multirelay I got 12v on pin 2,8,11,15 when ignition is off (allways). Pin 14 gets 12v on 2nd click... This is correct according to Autodata. I found a schema on Autodata that list how to check ECU power, will check that one too.

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 15:31
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paulvancraen

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Location: Breda

Registered: 24 Jun 2009

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Post #18
Ok, the wiring is ok then I guess (at least for starting the engine anyway...)

Have you checked the Multirelais itself? There are 2 parts in it, if 1 part is broken, some components won't get any power. (including the ECU I think)

If the multirelais is working ok, then it should be the ECU as said above.
Some people unlock the ECU by unplugging the ECU while the engine is running. Sometimes this method breaks the ECU... Just bad luck I guess.

Too bad u don't live near me, you could have borrowed one of mine to test it Wink

By the way: there's another earth connection on the loom which bolts on the gti6 head. I'm sure you didn't miss that though, it's too obvious Razz
EDIT:
There is no earth connection to the head, this is the Xsara VTS loom...
Posted 16th Jun 2011 at 14:27
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405gti6

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Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #19
Its funny you say that. I got no earth connected to the head...

Is this a terminal on the engine loom or a seperate wire?

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 19:58
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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #20
no earth to my head, its all on the gearbox stud.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 20:06
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405gti6

Junior User

Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #21
Multirelay is ok as I tested it on my other 405 that uses the same part number.

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 15th Jun 2011 at 20:28
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405gti6

Junior User

Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #22
Then it is confirmed... The ECU is locked. Put in another known unlocked ECU and fired on first crank.

Purs like a kitten, no ticking or knocks either.Big grin

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 16th Jun 2011 at 00:33
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paul_13

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Location: Reading

Registered: 10 Dec 2008

Posts: 693

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Post #23
Nice one Smile Glad to hear.
Pictures please Smile

________________________________________

205 GTI6- Rebuilt engine, lightened flywheel, lightened pulley, 307 hdi brakes, Koni struts on gravel spec springs, 22mm TB's, 24mm ARB, Roll cage, Citreon ZX rear dampers, SL434's, Xsara box, Quickrack, Pipercross enclosed induction kit. Smile

Private work, not a prob Smile
Posted 16th Jun 2011 at 02:03
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405gti6

Junior User

Location: Norway

Registered: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 70

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Post #24
I made a project thread for it allready Wink

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=138969&page=1

________________________________________

XU10J4RS powered 405 Big grin.
Posted 16th Jun 2011 at 03:24
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paulvancraen

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Location: Breda

Registered: 24 Jun 2009

Posts: 83

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Post #25
Great Smile

The earth connection on the head is only on the Xsara VTS loom. My bad Wink
Posted 16th Jun 2011 at 14:29
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