displaying posts 1 to 15 of 15

Author Subject: Brake pipe twisting when fitting?
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

Status: Offline

Post #1
Hi, just doing the brakes on my mates 1.6 and it's got brake pipes upto the wheel cylinder instead of the hoses to the calipers like my GTis got. I'm screwing the pipe into into the wheel cylinder but it seems to be twisting it a little, I've stopped now just incase I damage it.

Thing is, I can't see how I'm going to get it on without it twisting? I thought the unions turned independently of the pipes for some reason but it seems that they are solidly attached to the pipes. Do I have to unbolt the wheel cylinder from the backing plate and screw that into the pipe rather than screwing the pipe into the cylinder?Crazy

Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 14:06
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #2
sounds like the union is seized onto the pipe, time for a new pipe.

gti's don't have hoses to the caliper, solid lines along the trailing arm.

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Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 14:16
mechanical_repairs

Seasoned Pro

Location: leicester

Registered: 10 Jan 2005

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Post #3
Unbolt the wheel cylinder and rotate that to undue, reverse order to refit.

Otherwise its a new pipe.

Carl

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Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 14:55
flynn_

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Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

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Post #4
Yeah thanks guys for your help, I realised soon after and decided to avoid marmalising it to unscrew the cylinder like you said. Might advise him to get the pipe replaced afterwards as well, because it did twist slightly.
Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 18:01
smithers

Seasoned Pro

Location: Glasgow

Registered: 22 Nov 2004

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Post #5
Can we have a definition of "marmalising" please LOL

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Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 18:07
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

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Post #6
Marmalising? Dunno it just sounded good Big grin Okay nother problem now, the MC seems to have emptied itself while the brake pipe was undone! Didn't think it lost that much fluid...I need to refill it next weekend as I'm at work during the week. I am thinking just to undo the bleed valves and keep topping up the MC with brake fluid, will that get all the air out? Gravity will do the rest I would have thought?
Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 22:04
smithers

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Location: Glasgow

Registered: 22 Nov 2004

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Post #7
Get someone to pump the brake pedal as you open and close the bleed nipple if youre in a hurry otherwise top it up and open the nipple overnight and like you say gravity sholud do its job.

A pipe with a one way valve makes this job much easier Thumbs up

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Posted 12th Jun 2011 at 22:20
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

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Post #8
Yeah thanks mate although I think I should let the fluid work it's way around before using the brakes because I don't want to strain the cylinder soon after it's been dry for awhile. I am assuming any air in the master cylinder will be displaced by the fluid and come out of the bleed valves? Or is there a bleed valve on the master cylinder? Whistle:

Edit: Mate just called up to say he's ordered a new brake pipe from Peugeot even though I told him it would be expensive! Twenty pounds the robbing gits!Angry Have to fit it on the weekend, he's getting the bus to work for now!Big grin
Posted 13th Jun 2011 at 22:12
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #9
Sounds like you really need some help/adult supervision from someone with actual experience of working on automotive braking systems. Air does not work its way out by itself. Nor can you bleed the system from the M/C.

Starting from the furthest caliper away, NS rear caliper, depress the pedal hard, keeping pressure on the pedal crack open the bleed nipple on the caliper and drain out some fluid, use a clear pipe into a glass jar of suitable size. Its a good idea to put a bit of brake fluid in the jar to start with and keep the end of the pipe submerged so no air can get back into the syatem. With the bleed scerw open and pedal down the pedal will sink to the floor. Get your helper to keep his foot on the brake as you nip up the bleed screw, this will stop allow him to relaease the pedal for another pump without sucking any dirty fluid or air back into the system.
Repeat the process of press pedal, undo nipple, redo nipple, release pedal, press pedal, undo nipple...until fresh, clear bubble free brake fluid is all thats coming out the pipe. (If you are doing this with the car jacked up on stands and the rear wheel off you will need to push up on the drivers side trailing arm as the load bias valve will shut off if the arm droops down, stopping any fluid getting to the rear calipers)
Move then to the OS rear and repeat the process, then the NS front and finally the OS front, its pretty straightforward but its easy to get air trapped in the system and you may need to do this a couple of times to get the pedal to be properly firm.
Keep the top off the brake fluid reservoir and put some rags around it to catch any spilt fluid as it may burp out the odd bubble as you bleed the system, bear in mind that the level will need to be topped up regularly as you bleed out the old fluid. The reservoirs capacity is small and if it runs out and sucks in any air halfway through the bleed up process you will have to start right from the beginning (ball ache to be sure!) it just worries me when people tackle important saferty critical jobs like this without full knowledge of what they are up against. Follow the process above and its an easy job.
If you don't have a helper, Halfrauds sell an EZ Bleed pressure bleeder which makes is possible to pressurise the system yourself, same applies, dont let it run dry though as it will pump fresh air into the system and put you back to square one Wink

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Posted 13th Jun 2011 at 23:13
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

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Post #10
Thanks daveyboy but I understand the principles of a hydraulic system and how to bleed the brakes properly. As I said it has emptied itself so now I have to refill the system completely so I won't be using a bleed kit to pump the air out as that might gulp great chunks of brake fluid down in one go, instead I will fill it up and let the gravity do the work. The reason I asked if there was a specific bleed valve on the master cylinder was because as it had drained I was worried that the master cylinder might get an airlock inside it.
Posted 13th Jun 2011 at 23:42
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

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Post #11
flynn_ wrote:
Thanks daveyboy but I understand the principles of a hydraulic system and how to bleed the brakes properly. As I said it has emptied itself so now I have to refill the system completely so I won't be using a bleed kit to pump the air out as that might gulp great chunks of brake fluid down in one go, instead I will fill it up and let the gravity do the work. The reason I asked if there was a specific bleed valve on the master cylinder was because as it had drained I was worried that the master cylinder might get an airlock inside it.


Sorry if I seemed a little concerned about your knowledge, but the way some of your questions were worded it was'nt obvious you knew what you were up to. By the way it won't gulp down great chunks of fluid in one go as it can only get out if you open a bleed screw, it will need topping up a lot though if filling from empty. Thats one of the advantages of a pressure bleed kit though as that itself can hold the best part of 2/3 litre, plus whatever you put in the res. to start with Smile

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R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 13th Jun 2011 at 23:49
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

Status: Offline

Post #12
It's alright when I wrote it my mind was all over the place. I appreciate that you have a lot more experience than me and I take any advice greatfully. So even though the master cylinder has been emptied I just bleed it normally? The reason I ask is because the Haynes says to avoid letting the master cylinder empty but doesn't say why. I just wanted to know if there was a special precedure to follow when refilling from dry, incase the air can get in any nooks and crannies that it wouldn't normally be able to get to when there was fluid in the cylinder. Thanks Smile
Posted 14th Jun 2011 at 00:53
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #13
As long as the car is on level ground you should be fine (you may have noticed the M/C is mounted so it points downhill?) as the M/C is designed so air should'nt stay in it, but be forced either up into the reservoir or down the lines. It does'nt want to be left empty as it could get damp and corrosion could set in.

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 14th Jun 2011 at 01:03
phillipm

Seasoned Pro

Location: Rotherham

Registered: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 20,607

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Post #14
Normally you top the master cylinder up to burp most of the air out of the ports before fitting the brake lines.

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Posted 14th Jun 2011 at 01:03
flynn_

Junior User

Location: Faketown

Registered: 29 Jan 2011

Posts: 59

Status: Offline

Post #15
Okay guys thanks for all the help. I am going to get to work on it on Saturday as I'm away at work right now but I don't think that will be long enough for any corrosion to set in as there will be some left around in the cylinder.

Thanks for that tip phillipm, I will try to remember to give that a go.
Posted 14th Jun 2011 at 02:19

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