Cam timing out - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Cam timing out

zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #1

Was taking the car for a good blast the other night and it suddenly decided to run like it was on 3 cylinders. Sounded like an Impreza.

I figured it was a coil pack, although it was quite abrupt in nature and would not run without cutting out unless I kept the revs up a bit; to my knowledge, it should still run at idle with a duff coil pack, albeit sounding a bit lumpy.

So I limped about a mile home, and have today discovered that it's not a coil pack.

Is it possible that the timing belt has slipped a bit? I'd like to check the cam timing, but it's something I've never done so I'm not too sure what exactly I'm looking for!

Any help would be massively appreciated.

Cheers

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 18:42

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james_gti6

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Location: Goodwick

Registered: 18 Jan 2010

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Post #2

might help

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Posted 20th Mar 2010 at 15:57

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mabgti

NV motors

Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

Registered: 28 Aug 2003

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Post #3

i had a similar issue... turned out to be a a leak on manifold.. tightening the bolts up to torque sorted it Yes

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Posted 20th Mar 2010 at 18:57

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #4

I'll have a look Mab, but it doesn't sound right to me.

Let's just say I was stretching her legs and all of a sudden it went. Struggles to start and just runs absolutely terribly if it does start, shakes like a shitting dog for a few seconds and then stalls.

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Posted 20th Mar 2010 at 19:50

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chris with a pug

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Location: Southampton

Registered: 16 Feb 2003

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Post #5

Just whip off the cover and see if all the holes line up, but just bare in mind that if your timing was advanced it wont line up.

Posted 20th Mar 2010 at 20:00

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #6

There are a couple of manifold bolts loose.

However, the cam timing definitely doesn't quite line up. Sad

I appear to have different pullies compared with the ones shown in the FAQ though; do later engines have a different pulley design?

Got a mate coming up to have a gander as I don't know enough about timing to risk damaging the engine.

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 18:31

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #7

guess you have a single 18mm bolt in the middle?

like this;

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 18:51

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fletch

Track Head

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Registered: 12 Jun 2004

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Post #8

Two different designs of pulley Zac, seen a couple of the older style break before, so I think your deisng is preferable. How far out is the timing?

Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 19:47

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #9

No mate they're not the same as that, the inlet pulley is actually different from the exhaust pulley. Inlet has a big circular hole on one of the 'spokes'. Maybe an older style engine has been used for the rebuild?

Fletch, it's hard to tell as I've not fully taken the cover off, just the top bolts so I can prize it open to look. But around 10-20 degrees I'd say.

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:15

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #10

Alloy bottom pulley?

sounds like this type of pulley then

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:26

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

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Post #11

It's not that type of pulley either! Are there any other types? LOL

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:30

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #12

not o.e that I ever remember seeing nope LOL

have you got an alloy bottom pulley on there? how do you know that the cam is out? tried a pin into it?

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:38

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adam b

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Post #13

Could be the HG gone between two cylinders - sounds very familiar. Have you comp tested it?

I thought it was a coilpack and it sounded like a subaru / on 3 cylinders. Don't run it until you comp test it as you might burn a channel in the head - can be ally welded and skimmed but its a pain in the arse.

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:45

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

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Post #14

Standard crank pulley. Can tell they're out just by looking at them; in all the diagrams I've looked at you can see that they're nice and symmetrical..just look slightly out of sync'. I've got a couple of photos but they aren't the best.

Adam, I'm not going to start it up until I'm 100% that the timing is okay. Don't think it's the HG but will bear it in mind.

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:49

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #15

I wouldn't trust the standard crank pulley Thumbs up

sods law, there is a 3rd type of pulley, found this;

the engine RichW built for Bininoz

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 20:47

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zac

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Post #16

That's the kiddy! Except mine's on the inlet...not that it makes a difference. What's up with the standard crank pulley then?

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 21:18

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rudolf

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Location: Skelmersdale

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Post #17

The rubber damper can come loose causing the timing hole to be out.

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 22:09

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mabgti

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Location: Bham tunnel @7400rpm

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Post #18

Zac who built your engine?

was it custom mapped at waynes? as i presume he'd alter the timing a bit Yes

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Posted 21st Mar 2010 at 22:25

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adam b

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Post #19

Mine were both out if you looked at them as they'd been advanced - i'd be very surprised if Wayne didn't move them about a tad.

How much out are they?

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 01:04

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rich_w

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Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

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Post #20

Zac,

Don't be suprised if the timing holes in the cam sprockets don't line up with the holes in the head - it more than likely that Wayne had adjusted them.

I would check the timing, if it's massively out it could be the issue - but they don't normally slip, particularly when done up properly. And Wayne is the sort of person to do things up properly...

I would then take the plugs out and see what they look like, then perhaps look at a compression test. It's also wortth checking it's not something simple like a multi-plug on an injector or coil.

Smile

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 18:01

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #21

Cheers lads.

Wayne did adjust the timing slightly but didn't say exactly what he'd done.

I'll make sure the timing is okay before I do a compression test as I obviously don't want to keep cranking it if that timing's fubarred. Will check the plugs too.

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 19:35

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xploit

Newbie

Location: Notts/Leeds

Registered: 22 Mar 2010

Posts: 33

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Post #22

What a mare LOL

:

Lads i need a decent resource on timing this engine up properly if it is indeed wrong.

Best dig out my comp tester then!

Its definatly a leak on the engine or the timing though from my initial thoughts, it wont idle and sounds really bad when its forced to run.

What other control devices are there that could cause a bad or non idle? Names, jobs and likely hood of failure if poss.

Thanks, Dan.

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 22:30

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zac

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Location: Leeds city centre

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #23

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=64509&page=1

Have a gander in there Dan...

Oh, and I think I already have your comp' tester. Laugh

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 22:54

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xploit

Newbie

Location: Notts/Leeds

Registered: 22 Mar 2010

Posts: 33

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Post #24

That DIY cambelt guide looks helpful enough.

few Q's for anyone to answer please.

Harmonic balancer, whats this when its at home?

Whats the deal with this crank pulley? Is it two parts, how does that work?

Looks overally complicated as usual LOL

:

I guess i need to fetch that comp tester from Big Al?

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 23:23

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smegal

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Location: Leeds

Registered: 26 Dec 2005

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Post #25

xploit wrote:

It's a rubber outer on a metal inner with a timing hole in it, the rubber part can slip making the timing hole not line up.

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 23:35

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