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Author Subject: Understeer.
lotek

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Post #1
i have searched the forum and the net and everything is highyly conflicting.


i suffered alot of understeer at brands hatch, and tryed the whole tyre pressure thing to not much avail.

the whole internet says to reduce understeer you should Have Higher pressure up front and lower Rears.

this forum says the opposite,
at brands i tryed 32 front 34rear to no avail,
followed by softening front shocks only to help a tiny bit.

what is the FACTS about tyre pressures relating to underster in FFWD cars?
and eliminating understeer.



Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:07
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #2
32 Shock

what tyres are you on?

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:19
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

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Post #3
Tyre pressures wont be your main issue buddy, you are still running a fundamentall6y road biwsed suspension setup, that promotes roll and that forces your tyres into assuming an incorrect angle with relation to the tarmac, was it the main right hander onto the main straight? I suffered badly there too but and wanted an LSD to help pull me round. However I havent been back since ive done the coilies, negative camber, 30mm ARB, solid mounts, seamwelded subframe, cage etc. But until you can get your car turning flatter and keep the tyres firmly in contact with the ground you will struggle to get the best from them. For reference I found most grip out of my R888s by running at around 36 psi (hot) although they did wear fast they were much more grippy and responsive than when I was in the high twenties as suggested by a racer. Horses for corses though mate and you need to sort oput a few other things before you can maximise grip from your tyres. Smile

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:21
lotek

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Post #4
at brands i was using michelin pe2's on rear at 34 psi
and hankook v12 ventus on front @ 32psi

koni shocks all round, stiff rear , med front.

lower strut brace

Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:39
hovis16

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Post #5
i still reckon it something to do with your suspension set up,the rear to stiff for the front or the other way round? i had very little understeer with mine Ninja more four whell drifting LOL

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:41
lotek

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Post #6
i find when i raise the front pressures i get more, understeer.

have any of you removed your front ARB?
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:41
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #7
are the Hankooks track or road tyres?

and is that a hot or cold pressure? I ran mine 28-30 cold, aiming for a 32 ish hot.

on AO48's on a 205 we start with 26 looking to about 32 hot IIRC.

do you have an uprated rear ARB?


might be driving style tbh!

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:47
lotek

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Post #8
those pressures were hot Yes

and they are road tyres.


i changed my driving style halfway through the day , as i was accelerating into the corners instead of letting it roll into them.

Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:54
dented_vts

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Post #9
Do you have capability to stiffen the rear anti-roll bar and unload the inside rear a bit more? How much trail braking were you using?
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:56
lotek

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Post #10
also noticed the fronts were starting to get a ring around it were it was folding or something.

888's are a must for my next trackday, as the sidewalls are too soft on these.

you still got those 888's i sold ya welshpug? lol Whistle
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 00:57
lotek

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Post #11
dented_vts wrote:
Do you have capability to stiffen the rear anti-roll bar and unload the inside rear a bit more? How much trail braking were you using?


i was not using any tailbraking. i am going to be fitting a stiffer rear ARB very soon hopefully , and i am thinking of removing the front ARB, or fitting a Thinner one.
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:00
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #12
dented_vts wrote:
Do you have capability to stiffen the rear anti-roll bar and unload the inside rear a bit more? How much trail braking were you using?

I used an instructer at oulton last Nov Rick, up until i went out with the instructer i was suffering quite badly from understeer, having been taught Trailing Braking, the problem virtually went away, as the instructer put it the understeer was Driver induced, requiring a change in Driving style! Wink

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:05
davedgti6

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Post #13
I have found mine to be a lot better since I fitted my 21mm torsion bars and my 28mm ARB, I find it either four wheel drifts or oversteers a tad, although I can induce understeer getting on the gas a bit early, I have relatively soft-ish shocks though -bilstein b4's on the front and standard on the rear, although i do have Rich's roller bearing wishbone bushes Smile

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:10
hovis16

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Post #14
mine is the same davedgti6 just a ta more power down and it all correctable,but i have 20mm tbs with the hybrid arb. r888's needed

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:18
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #15
Ricky, I do indeed still have the usable R888's LOL

I would try and get some Yokos too if you have enough spare wheels, they are much stiffer.

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:20
davedgti6

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Post #16
R888's are great, i dont care if people say you should not use them on the road, you just have to be sensible if theres standing water, my anti roll bar is not a hybrid one either, its 28mm from one end to other Smile

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:30
pinkfloyd

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Post #17
First free mod, swap the tyres front to rear!

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:41
lotek

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Post #18
i take it you dont rate the hankooks pinkfloyd? lol

the michelins seem to have softer sidewalls than the hankoks.
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 01:46
si_man306

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Post #19
Also, don't forget that if you're understeering badly for a few corners, your tires are going to overheat, start to melt and the problem is going to get lots worse. I found Toyos used to melt quite easily, Eagle F1s were much better.

However, crucially, if you can adjust your driving style so that you're understeering less you'll find the tyres will be better giving you more grip and helping you even more- making you faster and less frustrated Wink

I found brands to be particularly bad for understeer issues- especially the far hairpin and spent a lot of time trying to adjust my line but never really got it perfect.

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 02:16
iplay

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Post #20
A blunt way would be to raise the rear suspension a few mm. Measure the rear and front jacking points and ensure that you have the rear higher than the front by 10mm. can be less if you want more grip around corners but you will sacrifice turn in.
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 06:43
phillipm

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Post #21
Book an instructor Ninja

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 06:57
lotek

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Post #22
lol.

i went out tonight for a drive and the car felt amazing? no understeer at all????

i think im gonna raise the rear a tiny bit and fit the hybrid arb and go from there. Yes
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 09:30
jeffers Forum Admin

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Post #23
lotek wrote:
lol.

i went out tonight for a drive and the car felt amazing? no understeer at all????

i think im gonna raise the rear a tiny bit and fit the hybrid arb and go from there. Yes

Rick i'm tellin you its the way your approachin corners ie your drivin style, i had the same problem as i say, book and instructor and they will help you iron out the problem! Oh and following on from your pm about cadwell, trackaction online do free instructors! Thumbs up

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 12:59
adam b

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Post #24
Possibly over-driving the car on fairly naff front tyres would be my guess.

You did have a slightly strange mismatched suspension setup if I remember?

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Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 14:49
lotek

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Post #25
i think i will take up some of that instruction jeffers, especially as its free Thumbs up

and adam yeah i did have mismatched suspension, but i changed to koni adjustables all round now.

the hankook tyres havent been too bad to be honest , well when they were on the rear anyway.

still no where near as good as the Goodrich g profilers though
Posted 1st Mar 2010 at 17:40

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