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displaying posts 1 to 21 of 21
| Author | Subject: Suspension upgrade - upgrade.. |
 braymond
Seasoned Pro  Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #1
Ive recently fitted bilstien B8 shocks, eibach springs (30mm) solid roller bearing wishbone bushes and 24mm torsion bars.I think i want to firm it up a bit more, what should i consider? i thought maybe a strut brace (upper? lower? both?) but is there anything else i should consider. what effect would a bigger ARB have on that setup? Cheers dudes ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
 Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 15:54
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adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #2
The eibachs aren't very stiff imo against the very stiff TBs in the back. Worth using one of Ash's ARBs I think. How do you find the handling at the moment, what tyres do you use and what do you use it for? ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:01
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lotek
Seasoned Pro  Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #3
bigger arb and lower brace .but saying that you car should feel tight as a nuns **** with that lot on it?? |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:02
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #4
if you've gone for 24mm torsion bars I'd go coilover at the front and bump the springrate up.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:07
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braymond
Seasoned Pro Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #5
adam b wrote: The eibachs aren't very stiff imo against the very stiff TBs in the back. Worth using one of Ash's ARBs I think. How do you find the handling at the moment, what tyres do you use and what do you use it for? Interestingly, i'd say the front end is firmer than than the back. the back feels a bit 'springy' to be honest. Carl (who fitted it for me) said it was coz its all new, but it doesnt seem to have settled down much The handling is pretty good, just not quite as firm as i expected. Ive got Eagle F1's. and the car is used mainly for road use, but also is also my "Ring toy" (hence the want for a good setup) ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:15
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lotek
Seasoned Pro Location: Berkshire Registered: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 6,107 Status: Offline |
Post #6
what rear shocks are you using? if there standard its not going to help.tyres are fine , so id say rear shocks or beam mounts maybie? |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:18
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Rich E
Forum Admin Location: Hertfordshire Registered: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 7,757 Status: Offline |
Post #7
Where to go from here depends on what you use the car for. I run Eibach springs with 21mm bars and a hybrid ARB with B8 dampers and I'm pretty much happy with it as a road setup. The only thing I'd change is perhaps the rear dampers as the rebound is a little too soft really.A bigger rear ARB (I assume you meant rear) will stiffen things a little more as a side effect of the reduced weight transfer under cornering load. You have a very unbalanced setup as-is though. The rear is significantly stiffer than the front at the moment. If you're happy with a very stiff setup and want to continue in that direction then you need to be starting with stiffer front springs. Strut braces do not stiffen at all but they do keep the geometry correct under load. There are no off the shelf lower braces that fit the GTi-6 due to the position and angle of the sump though. ________________________________________ Rich |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:22
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braymond
Seasoned Pro Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #8
THe rear shocks are Bilsteins too, not standard.Rich, what makes you say the setup is unbalanced? the rear isnt stiffer than the front. well not from a 'push up and down' point of view anyway. the rear has easier travel than the front. And i've seen the term 'hybrid ARB' bandied about. what does thins mean? ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:26
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Rich E
Forum Admin Location: Hertfordshire Registered: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 7,757 Status: Offline |
Post #9
Sorry I should have been clearer; I meant you've not increased the spring rates evenly. You've not maintained the spring rate distribution between the front and rear which means the roll centre has moved.I forget the exact figures but 24mm bars are around 100% stiffer than the standard 20mm bars and the Eibach springs are only around 20-30% stiffer than the standard springs. Do a search on the hybrid ARB bit it's basically thicker at one end than the other to maximise the thickness achievable on a standard rear beam as the trailing arm shaft centre bores are different on each side. ________________________________________ Rich |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:39
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #10
the rear will be significantly stiffer than the front at the moment, the Bilstein you have on there I doubt are designed for 24mm bars so can't cope, hence the bounce!unless I've wildly miscalculated them here's an idea of the rates involved at the back (ask Phill to check  )20mm is circa 127 Lb/In, 21mm - 160Lb/In, 24mm - 274 LB/In 25mm - 345 LB/In  that's working off a roughly 40" torsion bar (not counting the bits in the arm and beam bracket) and a 9" lever (aka trailing arm) ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:37
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braymond
Seasoned Pro Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #11
hmmmm it does seem i would've been better of with 21mm torsion bar then. rollocks!But that doesn't explain to me why if lean on the front end, its feels stiff, where as if i lean on the rear end, its easier to 'compress' if you will. i can see what you're saying about the rear shock not being up to the springrate of the thicker torsion bar, but sure that would be at cornering forces, not just a guy pressing down on the boot? ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 16:52
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Rich E
Forum Admin Location: Hertfordshire Registered: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 7,757 Status: Offline |
Post #12
There is less weight over the rear therefore the spring rate is less relative to the front where there is more weight. The rear will be easier to compress by hand as even with 24mm bars they will be softer than the springs on the front.When you are compressing by hand with your body weight you are applying the same load to the front and the rear but when the car is being driven the load applied to the rear is less than the front due to the weight distribution. It is the imbalance of the front and rear spring rates that is the problem, coupled with the rear dampers not being able to cope. ________________________________________ Rich |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 17:07
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puglover
Banned! Location: Far out there Registered: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 6,095 Status: Offline |
Post #13
spend your money on a rear ARB stiffer springs and some of phillips fox dampers. he will valve them to suit your cars needs. |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 17:15
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phillipm
Seasoned Pro  Location: Rotherham Registered: 15 Oct 2006 Posts: 20,607 Status: Offline |
Post #14
As Rich says, the dampers are probably not quite stiff enough to control 24mm torsion bars, hence the springy feeling at the rear.Bilstien can revalve them for you, but I think it's something like ________________________________________ - Bespoke rollcages/additions/adjustments. Half cages right up to complete custom spaceframes - MSA/FIA spec, CDS, ROPT, T45, etc - PM meEmail me! Custom-made polybushes available - need an odd size or fitment? - anything from batch work to one-off pieces. |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 17:35
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braymond
Seasoned Pro Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #15
Thanks guys.Rich & 'welshpug'- you're both very knowledgable on the subject - i wish i'd liased with you before hand now! Thanks for your advice though. I might looking into the re-valve option on the rear shocks, but by the sounds of it, even if the rear shocks are made to cope with the torsion bars, the spring rate front to back will still be massively at odds. I'll keep you posted! ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 18:32
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #16
I don't think the eibachs are stiffer at all than standard, if they are its bugger all. Massive difference going from them to my current 285 lb/in springs.I'd get stiffer springs on the front and better damping on both front and rear. Then have a look at the rear ARB and think about removing the front one. ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 18:32
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Rich E
Forum Admin Location: Hertfordshire Registered: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 7,757 Status: Offline |
Post #17
Eibach springs are definitely stiffer than standard. Not a huge amount no, but it is definitely noticeable  ________________________________________ Rich |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 18:38
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tommy_306
Regular  Location: Manchester Registered: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 409 Status: Offline |
Post #18
sorry to spam, but braymond, where did you get your B8's and eibachs from ?? as im wanting to upgrade to these but cant find anywhere that stock them !! ive looked everywhere but think im going blind !! ________________________________________ MY RALLYE PROJECT |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 21:38
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,817 Status: Offline |
Post #19
Miles - Pugracing________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 21:54
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braymond
Seasoned Pro Location: Brighton Registered: 20 Aug 2008 Posts: 1,163 Status: Offline |
Post #20
tommy_306 wrote: sorry to spam, but braymond, where did you get your B8's and eibachs from ?? as im wanting to upgrade to these but cant find anywhere that stock them !! ive looked everywhere but think im going blind !! I got mine through a guy called Julian at 'Balance Motorsport' in sussex. ________________________________________ Rallye-RNurburgring article |
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Posted 9th Sep 2009 at 21:56
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superfierros
Newbie  Location: Lima /Peru Registered: 09 Sep 2009 Posts: 3 Status: Offline |
Post #21
What are the more stiffers springs for the 306? |
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Posted 12th Sep 2009 at 00:34
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