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Author Subject: Max lift at TDC?
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #51
yeah if you don't mind, worth a look at them Smile

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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 01:28
mxcrazy

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Location: hastings

Registered: 22 Jun 2009

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Post #52
welshpug! wrote:
yeah if you don't mind, worth a look at them Smile


chuck us over an email address via pm and ill send them over, they are 88mm though Whistle
Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 01:30
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #53
oh yeah Doh

88mm eh? pushing it a little there, just some info of the cutouts would help a lot, they'd be the same whatever the bore is if the head is the same one Smile

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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 01:54
mxcrazy

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Post #54
welshpug! wrote:
oh yeah Doh

88mm eh? pushing it a little there, just some info of the cutouts would help a lot, they'd be the same whatever the bore is if the head is the same one Smile


Theres a few people running 88mm bore successfully, if it was going to be my daily driver id think twice, but its not, it going to be a toy.Big grin
Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 02:05
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #55
yeah, I think one I have driven myself is 87.5mm, I'd be more than happy to drive it daily, if its going to break its going to break LOL

I've just realised too, that an actual clearance value hasn't been given for the standard piston, nor the amount of lift as standard.

I'll have a go at measuring that myself, looking at how close Sandy's lunched engine was at 1.4mm lift and 0.3mm skim, I guess its not massively higher than that figure + gasket (1.4+0.3+ circa 1.25 = 2.95mm, though not an accurate figure though due the the inclination of the valves, it will be under that)

Pete mentions a safe margin of 2.4 and 3mm and Dan said 2mm, I think sandy works to about that as he did say any more than 1mm is pushing it.

so adding 1.5-2mm to the depth of the cutout would help a lot, so fingers crossed Martin Sandy or paul can help Smile (and that there's enough metal!)

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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 03:33
mxcrazy

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Registered: 22 Jun 2009

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Post #56
Ill have to try and measure the depths of the cut outs on mine, got one sitting infront of me now, i recon the intake side it must be 5-6mm deep from crown height.
Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 03:44
mxcrazy

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Post #57
mxcrazy wrote:
Ill have to try and measure the depths of the cut outs on mine, got one sitting infront of me now, i recon the intake side it must be 5-6mm deep from crown height.


Well, according to the guy that spec'd the pistons it '1.5mm clearance with 6mm @ TDC', but thats not gospel.
Posted 9th Jan 2010 at 02:08
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #58
my pistons are now sat in an engine block staring at me, head is off being tested and skimmed as necessary and will be fitted with an appropriate gasket.

Spoke to Martin a little earlier and the pistons will be in the post to him tomorrow sometime.

Thinking aloud time, since Martin commented that all his inlet valves had touched with the PT81's which are 1.65mm lift @ TDC and his head had never been off, adding 2mm to the cutout should suffice, I guess even with the skim a 2mm deeper cutout would work on a standard gasket...

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Posted 29th Jan 2010 at 02:27
mxcrazy

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Post #59
Taking into account that the valves dont run parallel with with the pistons, but i suppose the cut out will be 2mm deeper on the same plane as the valve angle? next thing to consider is how much the head is skimmed.

Id imagine that 2mm cut outs with the stock gasket will be fine with a skim, plus it'll bring the compression back up a little from whats lost with the cut outs, all be it minimal.
Posted 29th Jan 2010 at 02:39
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #60
yeah that I appreciate, but the radius of the cutout is larger than the valve so I think they'll be safe, not sure if martin just makes the cutout deeper or whether he can move it sideways too, I'll let him sort the finer details LOL

should be straightforard enough to adjust where the cutout sits when the piston is jigged, just a case of moving them up 0.2mm or so, maybe less as I dont know quite how much is going to be taken off the head to sort it.

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Posted 29th Jan 2010 at 02:42
mxcrazy

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Post #61
Thing to do is dummy build it, even if its at the expense of a head gasket, then measure piston to valve clearance to be sure what cams you can run, atleast then youd know 100% whats there to work with.
Posted 29th Jan 2010 at 02:47
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #62
Still have the old gasket, I can use that Smile

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Posted 29th Jan 2010 at 02:48
adam b

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Location: The Nam

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Post #63
Will be very interested to see how this comes out Mei. Especially as you've gone down the other possbile route from me. You going to remap it or get megasquirt on it?

Might be worth looking into the rev limit as well Wink

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Nothing to see here
Posted 30th Jan 2010 at 00:33
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #64
not sure on what I'm going to do with the management as yet, I'm just going to put it back together with the stock cams for now.

My cylinder head has had 8 thou taken off it to make it flat and clean up the tiny groove that was in it where the gasket had gone, looks a very impressive finish on it, no marks at all just smoothness, got them to fit my valve stem seals whilst they had it apart Smile

The valves are mightily close to the face of the head so I think I will put a thicker gasket on.

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Posted 30th Jan 2010 at 01:11
mrp

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Post #65
Where can you get thicker gaskets from and does the gti6 engine have different gaskets depending on what year/phase it is?
Posted 17th Mar 2010 at 00:34
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #66
Peugeot do a thicker gasket, its listed for the J4R engine, but its quite expensive at about

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Posted 17th Mar 2010 at 00:53
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #67
what you need are these;

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Posted 22nd Mar 2010 at 23:54
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #68
Thought I'd add the lift @ TDC figure for the PT82, 2.03mm Shock

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Posted 30th Jul 2010 at 01:33
joevts

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Post #69
what about the RS head on an XU7 bottom end? is there a significant difference in the piston height/cutout depth? what kind of CR would i be looking at with the standard/thicker gasket? and does anyone know the cylinder head height specs for the RS? haynes only states it for the diesel for some reason.
Posted 1st Aug 2010 at 17:33
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #70
not sure on the head height figures, but maximum skim from new is 0.25-30 due to the proximity of the valve seats to the face of the head.

As far as I know all three engines that use this head design have very similar valve clearance issues, fitting an RS head straight onto an XU7 bottom end may cause issues in itself due to the differing valve sizes, depends how much larger the radius of the cutouts are than the valves.

the specs of the XU7 have been posted by Sandy Brown on the 205gtidrives forum, a google search of the site should bring it up easily.

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Posted 2nd Aug 2010 at 02:07
joevts

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Post #71
i see what you mean about the radius of the cutouts, i'll have to measure up when i get the head off the XU7. but with the smaller bore of the XU7 and the fact that the RS valves are so close to the edges of the combustion chamber, i'm also concerned about them hitting the top of the liners, is this a possibility?

i got the impression from you chaps that the RS head would drop straight on the XU7 block no problemo?
Posted 2nd Aug 2010 at 17:23
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #72
as far as I know there's nothing that will cause you any issues.

the XU7JP4 inlet valves are larger than the RS ones, so its not an issue

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Posted 2nd Aug 2010 at 18:07
joevts

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Post #73
strange. i always assumed the RS had bigger valves all round. hmm
Posted 2nd Aug 2010 at 23:23
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #74
nope! they do have marginally larger exhaust valves, but smaller inlets.

its all in the ports Wink

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Posted 2nd Aug 2010 at 23:26
rallyeash

Seasoned Pro

Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

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Post #75
welshpug! wrote:
Peugeot do a thicker gasket, its listed for the J4R engine, but its quite expensive at about 50.

If I wasn't getting my pistons machined I would look to use one of these, but as I'm not I will use the standard Steel Multi layer gasket on my own engine.


on my old 1.9 mi16/gti6 hybrid i was running a 1.8 16v repair head gasket, was what sandy recomendid on the build. ill dig up the part number if you like? may even have the thickness somwhere

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 3rd Aug 2010 at 21:36

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